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World Politics Digest thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    but i guess the question is more, is it a democratic process the way its being done.the majority in parliament and extremly close to absolute majority seems to say no.

    i would agree that macroon is right, but lets see what happens in the next 2 weeks.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I do somewhat understand the aggression here, because by and large people will resist losing what amounts to free money or services; but 62 is an utterly insane retirement age relative to how old people are living. I'm 42 and I'd not be surprised if by the time I'm in my 60s our own retirement age hits 70. Of course it's all relative: we might be living longer but physically intensive jobs aren't getting any easier as we grow old.

    It does also goes to show that while many of us despair at the "ticking time bomb" of pensions, health services et al as our populations age, it's not just the politicians who are prolonging this problem. What's going on in France is arguably justifying successive governments' reluctance to touch that issue - it invariably attracts a massive amount of pushback.

    We do need to have a serious discussion about what shape society takes in a world where people live quite ably into their late 70s, 80s and beyond; what worked before can't work now - but who'll have that chat? And what amounts to a humane, fair system to allow people to enjoy their retirement?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭Slideways


    I don’t understand how a logical educated person can look at it and not say that 62 is too young to stop working.

    I’m 42 and have been doing a trade since I left school after the leaving. It’s bloody hard on the body but I figure as I get older I’ll have to transition to a leadership role, product support or just downgrade to a store man role or something like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,635 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I think the whole conversation needs to be more dynamic than just picking an age.

    How many in France actually retire at 62 and leave the job for a young person to take over.

    Retiring at 62 if you are bollixed is one thing but people who work on should not be getting anything for another for years.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    For sure and it's probably the simplest and fairest: but to allow for that you'd probably need a brand-new bureaucracy to facilitate a national, dynamic structure for retirement. Even if you didn't, the public service would probably agitate for one, lest they lose a union-mandated tea break. And like tinkering with the age in the first place, good luck selling that to electorates twitchy at the suggestion of even more "red tape"

    The first proper state retirement system, IIRC, was under Bismarck in Germany around ~1880, retirement set at 70; and with a quick google check, the average life expectancy then was approx. 40 ... so clearly the idea was most people would be dead before they could pull money from the state. And really, that has probably been the case with all pensions when all's said and done. Except France apparently.

    Christ if people start living to 100 en masse, we may have to even consider retiring the Centenarian Bounty lol.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,635 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Bismarck done is best to make sure that as few men as possible reached old age.

    The current 60 somethings in Ireland are the first generation to en masse have to deal with looking after their elderly parents. And young people now lament when a baby never got to know it's great grand parents.

    It's also a massive unspoken cause of the housing crisis.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Well like I said, it's a conversation people seem reluctant to have in any realistic, pragmatic way. There's a huge top-to-bottom revision required about how a modern country handles the reality of an older population; one that both lives longer, has longer careers, children at a later age etc. etc. etc.

    Heck, you wanna really dive into the rabbit hole, what of cemeteries? The population of Ireland has more than doubled in my lifespan, and so what do we do about plots for when people pass on? Can't keep extending cemeteries endlessly, not when as you mention - there's a housing crisis going on. One partially caused by the aforementioned undying population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Cemeteries do close. My local one is entirely booked up at this stage.

    Plenty of fields around to create new ones in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm surprised the tribulations of the proto-fascist Netanyahu led Government in Israel doesn't get more discussion on these pages.

    Having formed a coalition with ultra-nationalist zionist parties, even further to the right of his own Likud, the bold Bibi has u-turned on undertakings to stay out of conflicts of interest with investigations against himself,including of course, attempting to interfere with the powers of the supreme court and the appointment of judges.

    Weeks of protest have culminated in the Defence Minister speaking out today that the attempted reforms should be dropped, as the Military Authorities are getting word that thousands are refusing their national military service in protest. For his troubles the Minister, a Likud man himself, got dismissed by Netanyahu.

    Now, diplomatic representatives abroad have begun resigning and 700,000 people are on the streets tonight, some of them breaking down protective barricades around the PMs residence.

    So much for Israel, the democratic light in the window of the middle east.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,158 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    Feels like it's just a matter of time until Netanyahu government collapses and boy will I have some smile on my face

    Netanyahu is right up there with Trump



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Truthfully? The armchair political enthusiast in me has a big, loud sign marked "do not touch" when it comes to Israel. I just can't find an angle to unpack the subject, while tiptoeing around the ideological mindfield of even mildly criticising Israel.

    By all accounts the whole thing reads like a lost cause that, like Taiwan, smells of a situation everyone is trying to just pretend doesn't exist and will exist in this shítty limbo forever. Israel's full dive into right wing populism is despairing - not least for one of its cabinet's recent comments about the nonexistence of the Palestine identity - but also not remotely surprising either. A constant existential war footing invariably breeds a resting sense of that kind of dogma.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,635 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Nothing Israel does surprises me and getting rid of the current government will only lead to a different bunch of far right loons.

    There is no hope of normal politics until it becomes a normal country but no hope of a normal country until it embraces normal politics. But like Northern Ireland in that sense.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That's why I tend not to engage. I see no entry point onto the wheel that doesn't invariably throw up an impossibility blocking any real progress towards harmony. Genuinely don't see an end point, not without descending into apocalyptic scenarios. Starting with the (unlikely?) scenario where America stops being a friend to Israel.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    America's national security system is based on the 'five eyes' of USA, UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ. These five countries feed the intel they gather into the USA from which some of it gets shared around - if the USA/CIA think it might serve them to do so.

    USA politics is governed by the three Is - Israel, Ireland and Italy - because those countries fed a large number of immigrants into the USA and their descendants still hold allegiance to their origins and vote accordingly. So it follow, the USA will not abandon any aspect of USA policy that goes against the interests of those voting blocks.

    Most American Presidents since JFK visit Ireland in their first term to cement the Irish vote - even O'Bama. Likewise, the President makes time to see the Irish Taoiseach on or about St Patrick's since JFK - the only head of Gov to be certain of that type of access.

    The Gov of Israel can depend on the USA to veto any issue at the UN that goes against the interests of Israel - no matter what.

    That is the real politic situation of USA politics.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Oh I get why America is and remains an ally of Israel; I did say "apocalyptic" with deliberate intent towards hyperbole cos like you imply, Israel's existence broadly continues because of that American lock. Woe betide any neighbour who took leave of their sensee and made a real play for Israel (notwithstanding the likelihood of Israel's supposed secret nukes acting as deterrent ala South Africa's own secret response from fadó)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,297 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    It's suppose to be frozen as a proposal for now but I'm sure he'll bring it back later quietly to protect himself from his corruption case.

    Netanyahu determined to freeze the legislative process

    At the end of the discussions held with coalition leaders on Monday morning, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is reportedly determined to halt the judicial overhaul. He is expected to publically announce the freezing of the legislation later Monday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    The left-wing seems to have disappeared there. It's basically right win versus lunatic right wing and right now the lunatics are in charge.

    Israel has a "right to return" whereby if you're jewish you can go and live there and become a citizen. Howeer I think a large number of immigrants go and live in stolen Palestinian land (ie 'settlements'). They tend to be from places like Russia and USA and are far-right.

    You also have the ultra-orthodox jews having massive families and outgoing the rest of the population. They're now 25% of the population. I believe they are also supporting the current government because they want to continue to get an abstention from doing military service.


    Seems like Israel is at a cross-roads now. If they bring in this judicial law then that's really bad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    Bibi is the real obstacle to any progress in Isareli society, at least symbolically. He's reminding me of Orban and seems to be increasingly desperate to get back into power everytime he misses out (the why is obvious).

    Iirc, he is one of the few remaining old guard who fought in the 60s and 70s when Israel was literally fighting for its existence. Now, as an established nation with plenty of international support, I don't think that argument flies any more, especially given their treatment of minorities in their own nation. Like a lot of countries, it needs to re-assess its identity and how to proceed accordingly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    The current finance minister lives in an illegal settlement, denies the existence of the Palestinian people and is a self described "fascist homophobe".

    The Minister of National Security, another resident of an illegal settlment, is infamous for having a picture on his living room wall of Baruch Goldstein, an American-Israeli settler who slaughtered 29 muslims in a mosque in 1994. On his first date with his wife he took her to visit Goldstein's grave.

    Netanyahu has forged a deal with the devil in order to save his own skin. I truly hope that he fails.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    They're delaying it now for a month. Probably hoping that things cool down between now and then so that they can try and ram it through.

    Kinda reminds me of the recent backdown in Georgia where the ruling party are going to try and get it through their "Foreign Agents" law through at a later date.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its been interesting how many experienced commentators have been ready to say today, that Israel is at risk of a civil war. One that doesn't even include Arab Israelis or Palestinians!

    Netanyahu has had the most unbelievably damaging impact on the Country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,329 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Israel seems to have a gra for geriatric leaders and Bibi's dad lived past 100 so he could be in the game for a while yet...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I'm reading Silvio Berlusconi has been admitted into intensive care for a heart condition; 86 years old so no that surprising, apparently had left the public eye for a while now. It seems weird to think of a time when he was the most vulvar, outspoken politician in the Western World. Trumped, as it were, since then but by all accounts a prototype Trump of sorts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,820 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Things seem to be kicking off in the Sudan with the US ambassador saying they are hunkering in place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,635 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Looks like another attempt at a coup that has been tried and half succeeded a few times over the last 4/5 years.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,297 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Looks like a second round in the Turkish election as expected:

    State news agency Anadolu is reporting that President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's vote has dropped to 49.86% -- below the 50% needed to avoid a runoff -- ahead of Kilicdaroglu's 44.38%, with 90% of votes counted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,635 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Looks like the opposition ran one of the biggest independent vote counts in history. They have co-counted and photographed every single ballot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Pedro Sanchez has called a snap election in Spain after bad results in regional elections yesterday. His government still had 6 months left of their 4 year term and apparently it was a solo run with most of the government not in on the decision. The upshot of all this is that after the election, on 23 July, the far-right Vox party could very well be in power as part of a coalition with the centre-right PP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    Its either incredibly smart (him reasoning that the results will scare the middle ground into voting for the Socialists) or it'll be a bloodbath. These local elections left a lot of people surprised.

    A lot of the middle people in Spain are fed up of the Socialists and moving to PP, my wife and her family being one, regrettably. PP are doing a lot of the right posturing but they're rotten to the core and corrupt as **** but my wife's logic was "they're all corrupt". A lot of Spaniards think similar, unfortunately.

    For what it's worth, I voted for the Andalusian independence party in my local elections.

    Only Spanish nationals can vote in the general elections so its quite frustrating because I don't want those history re-writing, xenophobic, hateful shitehawks getting in.

    My only hope is that them being the junior party in a coalition will see them getting eaten up by PP, as has happened to Ciudadanos and Podemos.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,635 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I'm sure PS will try to constantly remind the middle that a vote for PP is a vote for Vox.



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