Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

NI Dec 22 Assembly Election

Options
1424345474863

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Once it's proportional to actual local usage. Local usage is everything. If 99% of local citizens have a certain way with spelling where they live, then signage should reflect this. Yes the 1% should be catered for but not necessarily with equal prominence.

    What we see in the south, is that the state has largely failed in persuading the population to embrace Irish in an everyday way since the foundation of the state. But having given up on persuasion, the language lobby have now enforced their view through application of the aspirational constitution and legislation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Dslatt


    That is some real hateful threatening signage right there, those fenian monsters 😅



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The demographics of what is claimed to be a 'Protestant village' which is the 'DUP's own area'.




  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Isn't it just! Life in Fermanagh has never been the same! 😁

    You don't 'weaponise' language rights by agreeing in democratic international and local forums a way forward on implementing rights. This kind of behaviour in the pictures below 'weaponises and politicises' it though.

    People want the native Irish words there to enhance and enrich the areas in which they live, the people who engage in the behaviour below have no care for resident or place. It is all about 'ownership'. They'd rather burn down the place they live in than relinquish the fantasy that they 'own' it.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    An excellent example. Even though most if not all signage in N.Ireland was English language only, and everyone understood it., at the insistence of SF Irish started to appears as the second language in mixed area, or areas with a nationalist majority. eg Fermanagh and Tyrone. OK, can live with that in the interests of compromise.

    However, NOW it is the first language on the sign in a predominately Protestant village in Co. Down.

    This despite the fact only  0.3% of the people in N.I. speak Irish as their first language. And rates gone up 8% in some area, partly to help pay for such new signage.

    Adams was quite clever, did he not say "equality was a trojan horse that was going to break the bastards". SF are the ones who politicised the language. If the moderate unionists think Irish signs are bad wait until they have to do compulsory Irish in school, look at pictures of Irish "revolutionaries heroes" on their walls in their classrooms (1916 in my time, will be Bobby Sands and Co for future generations if SF get their way), need Irish to get in to certain universities, get a government job etc - as happened here.;) And if anyone objects, first they will be called "bigots". Then other things happen.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What difference does the religion of the residents of a place make?

    The Protestant religion has not taken a position on the Irish language.

    You are taking a sectarian position here, and siding with sectarian bigots who wish to make religion an issue, which is something we all want to move away from.


    P.S. While everyone 'understood' the sign previously, nobody visiting the area 'understood' what the original name and how it was arived at was.

    What is wrong with enriching the heritage and culture by displaying that info?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    If a village in N.I. is predominately Protestant in N.I., you can safely assume that residents of same will not be adapting the language of Sinn Fein or flying tricolours, and will not appreciate a new sign erected with the first words "Failte Go...

    That's the reality. Erecting multi-lingual signage, at cost to the rate-payer in such areas is going to cause tension. How little you really know about N.I. if you do not understand that.

    Do not forget only 0.3% of the people in N.I. speak Irish as their first language. It is a pity SF have politicised it. If they did not it may be more popular.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Alliance, SDLP and others support Irish language legislation, not just SF.

    Which makes your 'language of Sinn Fein' comment ludicrious.

    The erection of this particular sign was supported by majority decision at the council, where SF doe not have a majority.

    Two questions now.

    Why single out SF as being responsible for the legislation.

    And WHAT has religion got to do with it, why are you sectarianising it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yes.. so can you interpret this. Looks as if 60% identify as 'British or NI' and 25% as 'Irish'.

    What proportion of these would daily use the Irish form of the name? Probably low enough in the first combined demographic. But what of the latter who identify as 'Irish' - how many of them use the Irish form or give a hoot about it.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm an Irishman and proud of it. I like the bit of gaeilge and interested in original ways with names. But I'm also honest enough to know the large proportion of my family, friends and neighbours couldn't give a crap about such matters. That's just how it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I agree - it's sad the way that the Irish language has been used for political purposes, both North and South.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Who said that 'using it daily' was the bar?

    Look at the agreed legislation that is the law of the land.

    I couldn't give a crap about many things, would I violently resist people doing what is within the law? No, I wouldn't and neither should anyone else doing it be condoned or excused.

    Certainly not on religious grounds nor on cultural bigotry and stubborn grounds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    For your information.

    The campaign for an Irish Lanaguage act was begun by Conradh Na Gaelige and was supported by SF, The Alliance, SDLP, The Greens. And whenever asked, the leaders of the main parties here FG & FF etc supported an legislation as well.

    The EU also supported legislative protections and encouraging of minority languages in it's European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages to which the British and Irish governments were signatories.

    SF did push for that legislation through democratic channels and won a committment in St. Andrew's from the British government. Any attempt to introduce the legislation was blocked by the DUP and UUP/TUV etc.

    After the impasse over it, SF and all the campaigners for a standalone act compromised on it and accepted a lesser deal than that which had been agreed.

    They 'compromised', and even then the DUP continue to block the roll out of the provisions of that agreement.

    Of course the Shinners are the bad guys here with some.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well if the Irish forms are not used daily, why would you give the Irish version not only equal prominence on public signage but also in the example here, given priority of place? Answer me that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You say "SF did push for that legislation". Yes, we are aware that Republicanism - which in N.I. currently means mostly SF - hijacked the Irish language and the tricolour etc. To the extent most unionists - which in N.I. means many in the Protestant community - do not want anything to do with it. Not surprising, given SF's history.

    I use the odd "cupla focail" the odd time, here south of the border, but I fully respect the right of the villagers in the predominant Protestant village in Co. Down to feel offended by signs starting off in the Irish language in their village. I would not like it if I were in their shoes. The thin edge of the wedge etc. If SF get their way, as happened here in the south, wait until the moderate unionists have to do compulsory Irish in school, look at pictures of Irish "revolutionaries heroes" on their walls in their classrooms (1916 in my time, will be Bobby Sands and Co for future generations if SF get their way), need Irish to get in to certain universities, get a government job etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    When you look at a bi or multi-lingual sign you gravitate to the language you understand on that sign. If you have travelled anywhere you would know that.

    Where the Irish was on the sign is not the reason it was removed, it was removed because of cultural bigotry and a fantasy about 'owning' the wee country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Again, The Alliance, The SDLP, The Greens. PBP all supported an Irish language act.

    Like you have been told other stuff, you have been told 'SF hijacked' it.

    They plainly didn't as an ILA had support right across politics and even in the EU and Dublin.


    Somebody has to propose legislation. SF certainly did that and they had the support of a majority.

     there is widespread, cross-party, majority support for a stand-alone Irish Language Act. 

    You are swallowing propaganda from anti-democracy parties without filtering it through the facts, again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Who owns it? The UK currently pays the bills in N. Ireland, so I guess the people of N.I and the rest of the UK own it, if anyone owns it. Only 0.3% of the population in N. Ireland use Irish daily as their first language, so why was Irish placed first and top in that sign in the predominately Protestant village if not to antoganize?

    If I saw a sign in Irish language first in N.I. I would assume it was a very Republican village there....because of the way SF and others have politicised the language.

    Do you not think it is part of Adam's strategy (and I quote)  "equality was a trojan horse that was going to break the bastards". The thin edge of the wedge etc? Do you not think, if SF get their way, unionists will have to do compulsory Irish in school, look at pictures of Irish "revolutionaries heroes" on their walls in their classrooms (1916 in my time, will be Bobby Sands and Co for future generations if SF get their way), need Irish to get in to certain universities, get a government job etc. It happened here south of the border, I would bet SF would want at least the same in N.I. as what we had here south of the border.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'Equality' was very much part of nationalism and republicanism's strategy.

    No, I don't think Irish will be compulsory.

    the 1950's/60's in Ireland when these pictures adorned school walls (at the behest of FF/FG led Dept of ED BTW) are long gone.

    There will be no compulsory Irish needed to access university, republicans/nationalists know only to well about deprivation of educational oppurtunities and have dealt with that in the submissions to the various forums discussing the legislation. There is NOTHING in the legislation forcing the use or knowledge of Irish on anyone.

    Do you accept that a majority of political parties supported a standalone ILA and they have compromised on that? Do you accept that the DUP/TUV are STILL blocking the outworking s of that compromise?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Sinn Fein is the main driver in N.I. behind getting the UK government to waste hundreds of millions on the Irish language, when only 0.3% of people there use it as their daily language. Sinn Fein have a few Irish words ( and only a few) on their website home page. Most of the home page is in the English language. Alliance and SDLP have none. Yet they push Irish - at the rate payers expense - top of the sign on their Protestant neighbours. What does that tell you? Not good for community relations there.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,746 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Do you not think it is part of Adam's strategy (and I quote) "equality was a trojan horse that was going to break the bastards". The thin edge of the wedge etc? Do you not think, if SF get their way, unionists will have to do compulsory Irish in school, look at pictures of Irish "revolutionaries heroes" on their walls in their classrooms (1916 in my time, will be Bobby Sands and Co for future generations if SF get their way), need Irish to get in to certain universities, get a government job etc. It happened here south of the border, I would bet SF would want at least the same in N.I. as what we had here south of the border.

    I'm not sure what your point is in terms of quoting Adams. I don't like the man but he was correct in that unionism is intolerant towards others (Catholics, gays, etc.) and by bringing in any form of equality would not be something the DUP would encourage. If I'm wrong, what have the DUP done to advance equality (without following on the coattails of others)?

    As for Irish being mandatory in the Republic - this is because it is the first official language of the country with English being the second official language. I'm not sure if you know this.

    As for Irish being mandatory in NI schools or the displaying of Irish revolutionaries, there is absolutely no evidence that this will be the case apart from your paranoia. Your assumtion that SF would want this does not equate to SF getting this. They may call for it but a change such has this has no mandate from the public so simply won't happen. However, the advancement of the Irish language does have a mandate and was signed up to by both governments and parties including the DUP.

    I can't believe that I'm defending SF but you're anti-SF bias (which is clearly evident) is blinding you here.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Did an Irish Language Act have majority support or not?

    I am not asking you what you think of the Irish language or the quest for an act, I am asking you: do you accept that a majority of democratic political parties supported this legislation?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,746 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Firstly, the lack of people speaking the language is not a reason not to encourage it's use. Many people want to use it but feel that they cannot because it is not encouraged. Unfortunately it is like this in the Republic too.

    As for the cost, given the large subvention provided by London to keep the lights on in NI, your concern over the cost for the use of a language is unfounded, especially when those most opposed to the language (despite agreeing to having an Irish language strategy) - the DUP - were the ones behind the massive fiasco of the Renewable Heat Incentive scandal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    However, the advancement of the Irish language does have a mandate and was signed up to by both governments and parties including the DUP.

    Yes, they agreed to legisaltion in the New Decade New Approach agreement.

    Annex E: Rights, language and identity

    And still we have people condoning and excusing what happened in Tobermore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The Identity and Language (Northern Ireland) Act 2022 is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom providing "official recognition of the status of the Irish language" in Northern Ireland, with Ulster Scots being an officially recognised minority language. Where does this Irish language act say there will be signs with "Failte go..." being the first thing you see entering a predominately Protestant village in Co. Down?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    All councils were required to have a 'policy' on dual and multi lingual signage. Here is the relevant section from the Derry/Strabane council's policy document posted earlier.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You say "As for Irish being mandatory in the Republic - this is because it is the first official language of the country with English being the second official language. I'm not sure if you know this." I know it only too well as it was forced down my neck, and many other necks, for 13 or 14 years of school. And it was the case universities like UCC, UCG, UCD etc would not accept applicants from Ireland who did not pass Irish in the leaving cert, and there was institutional discrimination against non Irish language speakers in government jobs too etc.

    You claim Adams was correct in that unionism is intolerant towards others (Catholics, gays, etc.) - maybe the leadership of the DUP may be intolerant but any everyday unionists I ever met were not, they were ordinary people getting on with their lives. Perhaps any jewish people in N.I. would say the unionists are more tolerant of them than nationalists. Of course you get extremists on both sides of the sectarian divide in N.I.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,746 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm reading on twitter that various unionists including prominent DUP members have been quietly using their Irish passport while travelling. Based on passenger manifests released by other countries, people have discovered that these unionists have been quietly keeping an Irish identity.

    • Ian Paisley junior has used his Irish passport 18 times in 9 years
    • Sammy Wilson has used his Irish passport 4 times in 5 years
    • Nigel Doods has used his Irish passport 37 times in 8 years
    • Kate Hoey has used her Irish passport 17 times in 3 years

    I'm in no way against them holding an Irish passport as it is their right as residents of NI. However, it does seem hypocritical of them to proudly proclaim their Britishness and deny any semblance of Irishness to their followers but at the same quietly using the identity because internationally it is widely welcomed.

    Even Arlene was caught lying about hers apparently...




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,746 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You say "As for Irish being mandatory in the Republic - this is because it is the first official language of the country with English being the second official language. I'm not sure if you know this." I know it only too well as it was forced down my neck, and many other necks, for 13 or 14 years of school. And it was the case universities like UCC, UCG, UCD etc would not accept applicants from Ireland who did not pass Irish in the leaving cert, and there was institutional discrimination against non Irish language speakers in government jobs too etc.

    ok - so reading through this, are you referring to the past and, if so, why?

    For reference, my wife never did Irish but still managed to attend university here.

    You claim Adams was correct in that unionism is intolerant towards others (Catholics, gays, etc.) - maybe the leadership of the DUP may be intolerant but any everyday unionists I ever met were not, they were ordinary people getting on with their lives. Perhaps any jewish people in N.I. would say the unionists are more tolerant of them than nationalists. Of course you get extremists on both sides of the sectarian divide in N.I.

    Anyone who supports these a party that supports intolerance is supporting intolerance. Is that not obvious?

    How many people support the KKK for their prudent fiscal policies?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ordinary moderate Unionists are not attacking bi-lingual signs.

    The type of people who burn effigies of Irish people on bonfires, supported by DUP/TUV councillors, are the ones removing/damaging these signs.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Just read what you wrote again. “Biligual signage is inclusive for all”. It’s a tad arrogant to think that two languages represent ALL



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement