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PV Feed In Tariff

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  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭adriant900


    Question on Feed In Tariffs for slightly larger than your standard domestic array. Apologies if it has been covered, I looked and could not find it.

    I am going to submit an NC7 form to the ESB to get permission to install 30KVA. (I have 3 phase power).

    I have read and heard mixed messages on how the feed in tariff for this will work. For 3 phase Micro Generation is under 11KVA, I will be above this so it will be called Mini Generation. I rang ESB, they said nothing to do with them, talk to your provider, I rang Electric Ireland, they say they are paying the same rate to both at 21cent but he did not seem 100% sure so I emailed asking the same question and they have not replied almost two weeks on.

    I read online about the Clean Export Premium Tariff which is 13.5cent per KWh. I am confused about where I will stand, I am a high user which some machinery working but getting a price for export will be important to make the economics add up. If they are going to pay 21cent, what is the 13.5cent about?

    I also saw on PV installer website that the 13.5cent was fixed for 15 years, another website said that it will drop by a cent a year. What do the knowledge community of Boards.ie understand to be the situation?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I don't know this for sure, but my understanding when I read that (when released.....what 12 months ago now?) was that the 13.5c was a garuntee low rate. As in you might be paid higher, but this was the minimum that you could be paid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    My understanding is that you'll be payed a guaranteed rate of 13.5c/kWh which is guaranteed for 15 years


    However, it may be worth considering your options and whether it's worthwhile. I understand the fees for the NC7 aren't cheap (~€1100?) so you'd need to factor that into payback period

    Since you're on 3 phase you can go up to 11kVA of export power on an NC6 form, assuming that you limit the export of your system. This is free of charge to register

    It might be worth looking at the generally higher export rates for system on the CEG, Flogas for example are offering 24c/kWh


    Those rates can change at any time however


    It's also important to understand what kind of meter/tariffs you have and whether your export will be metered, or you'll receive an estimated amount called deemed export

    Since you've a lot of machinery, I'm guessing you'll be aiming for a high rate of self consumption. Is there any possibility to automate some of your machinery to run when you have a lot of excess solar power?

    So in that case you can prevent electricity being exported to the grid (and probably imported another time at higher cost)

    You may also want to invest in some batteries to enable you to store energy instead of sending it to the grid

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,115 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    I also saw on PV installer website that the 13.5cent was fixed for 15 years, another website said that it will drop by a cent a year. What do the knowledge community of Boards.ie understand to be the situation?

    It will probably depend on your provider but the original wording from the govt was...

    • "Non-domestic applicants will be able to apply for a Clean Export Premium (CEP) feed-in tariff to support installations between 6.1kW and 50kW. In 2023, the CEP feed-in tariff will be €0.135/kWh. The CEP will be fixed for 15 years and eligible volumes will be capped at 80% of generation capacity to encourage self-consumption
    • Supports under the MSS will gradually reduce over time from 2024, to take account of reducing system costs
    • The final phase of the MSS involves the introduction of a Clean Export Premium (CEP) feed in tariff, which will offer a guaranteed export tariff support for new non-domestic installations between 6kW and 50kW in size. The tariff will be fixed for 15 years and is expected to be available at 13.5c/kWh in 2023, following the completion of an implementation plan by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities (CRU)."


    All that was said before electricity prices went through the roof so what was actually implemented in law may have changed or still being worked out but the CEP tariff was expected to be fixed for 15yrs and the grant support was to be tapered over time but who knows where it stands now.


    The SEAI should be your first port of call as its all administered through them, so they will give you a definitive answer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭idc


    Strictly speaking on NC6 limiting your export is not allowed. With micro generation the total capacity of all inverters is all that ESBN consider. There is no max export limit. so if he has 2 inverters capable of 20kVA in total that is not allowed as about the 11kVA limit. With NC7 you are allowed employ export limitation devices. But as someone commented in another thread plenty of us are employing export limitation and have 1 or more Inverters larger than 6kVA (single phase)



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    NB The NC7 fee of ~€1k is not automatic granting, if esbnetworks deem capital spend required then you foot the bill, if you don't want to foot the bill then your €1k fee is gone

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,895 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    This is my main problem with the NC7. It's a 1k bet on your local substation having capacity!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Agreed, I simply do not trust esbnetworks, it is in their interest in limiting our ability to PV, if it was a simple case of completing the form then I would do it but why a grand to fill out the form when the NC6 is free? and if they come to a house and works required you can bet your ass their pricing will be through the roof.

    They are effectively monopolising and abusing the supply chain

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Just off the phone to electric ireland who owe me about €300 for FIT last year.

    They told me you have to ring them to let them know where to pay the money. As if they didnt know already.

    I asked would i have been paid if i didnt ring. No was the answer. So ring them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Chatting to a mate of mine yesterday and he has PV, he's with Airtricity and they told him he is not entitled to any FIT until he gets a SMART meter and only from when it's fitted will they pay.....the BS being thrown around is unreal

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,895 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    And its their work that needs to be done, so no one else can do it too. So it's before the meter.



  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,229 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    I thought EI were paying out each billing cycle like Energia have been.

    Will probably have to change from Energia next month, trying to avoid any suppliers taking the piss with FiT/deemed export.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Yup - I mentioned it previously in the thread slave, but got that same sentence pretty much word for word from them when I left. In my case they were refusing to pay for FIT while I was with them, unless I got a smart meter with my NEW supplier. As for what my current smart meter status with my new supplier has to do with them was beyond me.

    Got a cheque in the door a few months back with the money they were legally obliged to give to me.

    Your right the level of horse$hit going around on this is criminal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    To be fair on that one, I do think there should be "some" charge for the customer to get the analysis done on NC7. €900 (or whatever it is) seems a bit excessive to me. More like €250 would be appropriate, as you want to discourage people banging them in willy-nilly for residential. That said there should be some kind of "better guarantee" that they will be able to facilitate you. It would seem only fair that if their were technical reasons that you couldn't get the NC7 approved that they would refund you the money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,895 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I wouldnt mind a 900 quid refundable deposit or as you say a 250 site visit charge. It's excessive as it is though and it's discouraging me from doing it!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    It is 100% set at a high unrefundable level to discourage

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Hi - just curious if EI issued your bill yet? Still waiting here.. not mad to give them money but wondering whats up



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,735 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    Im getting paid fit every bill 60 days from EI as expected.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Hardly a conspiracy to rob you of €1,000. They publish a network capacity map.




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,895 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes but how do you know if any line works are required? It's not just a case of your local sub having space.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    This is what it says for mine...


    MV/LV Substation XXXXX

    Secondary Voltage(s):

    400V(3ph) & 230V(single ph)

    Installed Capacity:

    200 kVA :Pole Substation

    Demand Capacity Available:

    70 kVA

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I thought the position from ESBN was that your MEC cannot exceed your MIC, and has to be up to the level the local transformer can handle

    So if your MIC is 16kVA then your MEC won't be higher than 16kVA, even if you put 30kWp of panels on your roof

    And if for example the local substation had a MIC of 50kVA, then you could have up to 3 houses exporting 16kVA without issues. But the 4th house who wants to export will require the transformer to be upgraded to do so, and they foot the bill if that upgrade

    I agree in general that €900 non refundable deposit just to apply is a bit silly. As others said it's fine to have to pay a bit up front for the assessment, and then if works are required then go ahead and decide whether it's worth it or not

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Well for starters they aren't going to give you a MEC larger than your MIC. Assuming capacity at the substation and all your neighbours aren't also NC7 generators you'd probably get a MEC equal to your MIC.

    If you're exporting you're a generator, so look at the other tab. Demand and generation capacity are usually inverses each other.


    I agree though that the €1,000 is steep.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,895 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes, MEC can't exceed MIC. I cant get the other tab to load unfortunately. I think ultimately when I get my smart meter that is capable of doing MCC02 (ie the smart meters configured as RM107 being rolled out from q3 this year) I will apply for NC7.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Generation tab doesn't seem to work for me, I guess it's not optimised for mobile devices

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    It just doesn't work for anyone 😂

    Are you using Firefox by any chance?

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Nahh - Edge . Perhaps you have to login for that to work. Dunno and not sure I have the patience to create an account :-)



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan




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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    That works for me 👍


    So my local substation is a 400kVA kiosk substation, and it says it has 200kVA of generation capacity available

    This seems familiar, was there something in the microgeneration scheme about total generation for an area being set at 50% of demand capacity?

    Interesting how it's showing 200kVA when I know there's a good few houses in the area with solar panels installed. Do they not count the installations under 6kVA into the generation capacity, or does it not update as new generators are added 🤔

    So in theory, I should be able to go up to my MIC of 16kVA on an NC7 application and there wouldn't be any grid upgrades required, right?

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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