NI Dec 22 Assembly Election

Francie I don’t have to trawl the internet. This is this month a couple of miles from my house. They don’t want a prod about the place

Seth I think you may be being blinded here by whatever it was you told the other poster was blinding them.

it is no time since numbers on here were saying Arlene was a member of the orange order. I was lambasted for saying nonsense. I made direct contact through a friend and I’m assured Arlene is not and never was a member of the Orange. Here we go again claiming she has an Irish passport. I believe her. Now can some provide evidence of this claim and I will immediately retract.

wikipedia is not enough as the last time I looked it was saying she was in the orange. It’s difficult to debate when an anonymous twitterati is accepted over a respectable public figure. Sure let’s not let facts get in the way of a good story.

But whats wrong with any of them having an Irish Passport? If they did I mean.

Plenty of British people have an Irish Passport.

It really doesnt need to be one Passport of the other

Ordinary moderate Unionists don't vandalise signs or deny cultural rights or the fact that this is Ireland with a culture history and heritage that includes their own.

You are not seriously going to try and take the high moral ground on 'territory marking'?

The signage also has English on them, of equal size, in all cases.

It is Unionist strategy to ensure that areas without legal and agreed signage are 'their areas' (See Francis above actually saying this) and 'Protestant villages'.

This is wrong on so many counts.

1) why would anyone need to be a member of the orange order to be invited to lead a parade?

2) why would Arlene bother getting involved in correcting a Wikipedia page about such a non issue?

3) “As a committed member of the Order, this was a reason behind the original defection from the UUP ten years ago.” This is the silliest. I understand that in the DUPs 50 year history it has only had a current member of the OO leading the party in the last 2 years - that’s 96% of its life it’s leaders were not members of the OO. In contrast I reckon the UUP is approx the opposite - so have a wee think just how silly this post of yours is. (I am always here to learn so if you have evidence to the contrary please share it francie)

Arlene Foster is not a member, you were wrong again Francie. Anyone can edit Wiki, and there are hundreds of edits on her Wiki page. I would say she would not be bothered correcting the wiki page about such a non-matter, as Republicans say worse things to / about her the whole time. For example, not that long ago at a public function, a young woman came up to her and said in her face "UP THE RA" or words to that effect. Charming, considering  that when she was a young girl she witnessed a night-time attempt the IRA made to kill her father, who was shot and severely injured at their family farm. Years later, as a teenager, the IRA bombed her school bus. A girl sitting near her was seriously injured.

She left the UUP (which she joined when she was in Uni ) and joined the DUP because she didn't agree with the then leader of the UUP, David Trimble, I seem to remember. People leave one party and join another the whole time Francie, after all Mary Lou was once in Fianna Fail before joining SF I believe.

You are dragging the bottom of the barrel by stating "she has more than adequately shown she has all the qualifications to be a member." Who cares? I would not simply criticise some just because they may have more than adequately shown they have all the qualifications to be a member of Opus Dei or the Ancient Order of Hibernians or Sinn Fein.

50 years of rule by one party, facilitated by changing the voting system, gerrymandering of constituencies and depriving certain citizens of their vote.

'Not perfect'?

I would say that is the perfect way to run a one party state myself.

Can you deny that this was the reality in NI?

No, if you want the perfect way to run a one part state, look at North Korea, the country you likened N. Ireland to in terms of having a one party state.

May I remind you, as I pointed out before, in North Korea, , there is only one name on the ballot paper. Those who want to vote against the sole candidate on the ballot must go to a special booth—in the presence of an electoral official—to cross out the candidate's name before dropping it into the ballot box—an act which, according to many North Korean defectors, is far too risky to even contemplate. All seats are won by the Democratic Front for the Reunification of Korea. Voting is mandatory and turnout is habitually near 100%. (99.98% in 2019).

In the border Poll referendum in 1973, everyone had the same vote. No gerrymandering, depriving anyone of the vote etc in that referendum. And yet it was a landslide win for those who wanted to remain part of the union. Even if those who did not vote had voted to leave the UK, they would still not have won the referendum, because unionists made up the majority of NI then. Same as nationalists made up the majority in the "free state" or 26 counties or whatever you want to call it. That is a lot better democracy than N.Korea anyway.

Before '73, in Northern Ireland poor protestants ( and there were plenty of those too ) had only the same voting rights as poor catholics. The rest of the world was not perfect in the 20th century either. Women only got the vote in France in the 1940s. Black people (including black women) were effectively denied voting rights in numerous Southern states until 1965. I still think that democracy, freedom of travel etc in these islands is very far ahead of North Korea, and was in the 20th century too. You claim NI was a "one party state" ; but people in the jurisdiction were free to move to other parts of the UK or Ireland is they so wished, and were free to vote for other parties in NI if they so wished. Other parties got double digit votes ( ie more than 10%) in elections in NI. Be thankful you never lived in N. Korea, then you would know what a real one party state was.

North Korea is another way to run a one party state. There are many ways.

If you can contradict the below with evidence and back-up, please do.

50 years of rule by one party, facilitated by changing the voting system, gerrymandering of constituencies and depriving certain citizens of their vote makes it a controlled one party state where (as John Hume said) they had 'exclusive power'.

If you can't, my point stands.

Conversation is over on this, if you will not address the above facts.

Is there any point asking you to back this up?

Fascinating website for those interested.

Run by the redoudtable and brave Linda Irvine (Lundied and villified by her own) it gives the lie to any claims that there is a blanket objection to the Irish language in Protestantism.

There simply isn't any proof of that and anyone linking the two is trying to sectarianise the issue to their own ends.

What Government jobs do you need Irish to get, as a matter of interest ? Speaking as someone who has had a Government job for over thirty years now, who didn’t have to pass any Irish exam to get in. And if you are going to come back and say it was the case once upon a time, well why would you imagine that that position would be reverted to, for anyone ?

For most of the 20th Century, up until about 30 years ago, you needed Irish to get a government job. Even up to the present day to get in to certain universities like UCD, UCG or UCC, a minimum grade of O6/H7 in Leaving Certificate Irish is generally required for all applicants born in Ireland.

If nationalists like Sinn Fein want to increase the use of Irish, as they seemingly do ( it would have been unthinkable a few decades ago that the first language on the sign outside a Protestant village in the North would be the Irish language, against the wishes of the residents there ), then if I were a resident of that village I would not trust the government of an all Ireland state.