A good state job and a big pension

SuperBowserWorld · 27-03-2023 9:25pm

The next wave of AI based tools are going to make a load of private sector desk jobs redundant, including IT jobs. Maybe it'll lead to new technologies and new business opportunities ...

There are so many problems converging that the human race has never had to deal with before never mind all at once.

So, I dunno, state job might be better, for a while. Probably a load of juicy EU jobs to regulate AI. Also, YouTube influencers !

Maybe it'll all be grand ! Maybe we won't have to work anymore and the machines will do all the work. Maybe in the 25th Century.

bobbyD1978 · 27-03-2023 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408380#Comment_120408380

I see you haven't stopped making up **** and lying about the gardai.

There's no threshold, you pay 12% (new entrants) of your gross pay into your pension. It's not tax, there's no allowance or limit before you start paying. I'm baffled where you even get that from. Your ass probable.

25% allowances just from doing your normal working roster? Would ya **** off. Sunday and public holiday allowance, yes they are good. Nights and Saturdays are only worth pennies on the dollar. Saturday allowance fyi is a flat 15 euro!

The amount of applicants doesn't mean it's a great job or overpaid. It means there's a lot of people out there that believe in doing the job because it's a public service job. They are also the people who have absolutely no idea about the actual job so hardly the experts to ask.

And if you factor in overtime as I know you like to do, be sure to do the same with whatever job you compare to the gardai and show is the hourly comparison.

When you next compare to another European force, be sure to also compare average income and cost of living. Cause I know that's another trick you like to pull.

salonfire · 27-03-2023 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408785#Comment_120408785

Good lord above. I hope you never make detective.

Google the single public service pension rates. The first €34000, there is no contribution charged. After that, it's something like 3%.

salonfire · 27-03-2023 11:51pm

Pity the guarenteed job and pension is still not enough for some. Drug dealing Superintendent down to the Garda on the street.

It proves no matter how much you pay people, it's never enough for some who can target the vulnerable.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/gardai-arrested-over-probe-alleged-29508457

Geuze · 28-03-2023 12:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408785#Comment_120408785

Most PS pay regular 6.5% pension contributions plus the ASC.

The ASC rates are below, the Gardai are fast accrual

https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Fast-Accrual-Scheme-Information-Booklet_WEB-1.pdf

So Gardai pay 0% ASC on earnings up to 28,750. After that the 10% ASC kicks in.

Geuze · 28-03-2023 12:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408909#Comment_120408909

That is for standard members of the SPSPS.

The fast accrual members pay more, but of course they don't need to work as many years.

salonfire · 28-03-2023 12:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409272#Comment_120409272

SPSP rates for gardai are partly based on Net pensionable remuneration, which is gross minus 2xOAP. Which means that there is a threshold below which no or a tiny contribution is paid. Of course, the total salary counts towards the career average.

As usual, the complaining public sector worker fails to show the full picture and presents only half the story. The Garda will be given a lump sum and pension at an age where they can still get a second career for not unreasonable contributions.

Jim2007 · 28-03-2023 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409289#Comment_120409289

Here is a very simple question for you, would you be willing to risk your life for a pension? Because in the end that is the risk you have to be willing to take to get the benefits you are so jealous of. Having done ACP over 40 years ago and seenwhat they do, I can say without hesitation there is no way I’d do it. You want their pension go put your life on the line, otherwise put a sock in it.

salonfire · 28-03-2023 1:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409343#Comment_120409343

Do you ask the drivers, farmers, fishermen, construction workers, etc the same? Because their jobs are more dangerous than the Garda.

The danger of the Garda job is just spin for grabbing attention of how they deserve to be paid more and has no basis in statistics compared to other jobs.

Dayo93 · 28-03-2023 1:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119752864#Comment_119752864

Can't be arsed

Jim_Hodge · 28-03-2023 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395788#Comment_120395788

Hold on. There's obviously more to this. How many years service? What current salary? None are working to retirement age with a 9k pension. Basic salary today, without ever getting a promotion, will give at least €26000 pa, plus a tax free lump of €78000, after only 30 years. That's the minimum by a long way.

Geuze · 28-03-2023 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120396009#Comment_120396009

First you say the Garda pension is 9k, then you say it is 15k.

The 9k is wrong.

15k could be correct, I don't have time to check it now.

+13k approx SPC = 28k in total

Jim2007 · 28-03-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409354#Comment_120409354

OK, that is enough then, you clearly would not be willing to do it yourself, just whining and jealousy and no respect for those that do.

salonfire · 28-03-2023 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410390#Comment_120410390

The typical go to of someone that has no argument. You ought to know better with your experience.

Unable to refute the facts and challenges I put up, you resort to the childish "if its so good why not you do it". I did not mention the nature of the job or the dangers. Its you who brought that up as a strawmans argument.

Jim_Hodge · 28-03-2023 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410300#Comment_120410300

The only way it could be as low as 15k is if, for some implausible and impossible reason, a Garda finished 30 years without even getting the fixed increments on the basic grade salary.

Irishguy215702 · 28-03-2023 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410300#Comment_120410300

Read and digest my message properly. It's 14 to 15k if you can complete 30 yrs service, I won't get the full 30 years service, as such mine is 9k. If you're over 30 joining, the pension is far worse again.

bobbyD1978 · 28-03-2023 2:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408909#Comment_120408909

Produce it yourself, it's your evidence. I only pay it, what would I know?!?

bobbyD1978 · 28-03-2023 2:26pm

It's 15k now. Old pension, that I am on, had a built in top-up until you qualified for the OAP. That's gone now.

Old pension that's already retired get a good pension but don't qualify for state pension. 1995 to 2012 get the Garda pension and a top up until 65 then you get the state pension. After 2012, basic pension only and no top up, until 65 then you can also claim the state pension.

Geuze · 28-03-2023 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411070#Comment_120411070

OKAY.

The top of the pay scale is 56,118, that excludes the two recent pay rises.

So after 30 years the pension is 50% of that = 28k, assuming no pensionable allowances.

There are likely to be pensionable allowances, I suspect?

28k will be made up of 15k PS pension and 13k SPC.

Geuze · 28-03-2023 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411373#Comment_120411373

I think the top-up you are referring to is known as the supplementary pension, which is payable until the SPC starts at age 66, subject to certain conditions.

Jim2007 · 28-03-2023 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410561#Comment_120410561

We have your mark, you would not be willing to do the job, expect others to do it for you and be grudge them their income and that is the fact, you have made it very plain.

Irishguy215702 · 28-03-2023 7:00pm

Incorrect, that 50% of salary applies to the pre 2013 recruits. Post 2013 recruits who manage to achieve 30 yrs service before reaching 60 years old receive 14/15k max or over 250 a week. Apply after 30 and receive much less.

bobbyD1978 · 28-03-2023 7:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411872#Comment_120411872

They don't get the supplementary as I said in my post.

salonfire · 28-03-2023 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411339#Comment_120411339

The barefaced lies that public and civil employees peddle time and time again never stops on Boards. And apart from me and one or two others, never challenged. It's utterly bizarre.

Here is your link: https://www.gra.ie/documents/GRA-Pensions-Booklet-Jul17-red.pdf

Post 95 pays 1.5% of gross + 3.5% of net pensionable pay (gross minus 2xOAP). Since these deductions are tax allowable, it's actually a bit less.

There's no way you are paying 12% of your gross on your pension unless you are on a massive salary. The garda is struggling with basic arthmatic me thinks and is just adding up the head-line rates.

ASC is 10% after first €29000

salonfire · 28-03-2023 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411944#Comment_120411944

Challenging a liar and calling someone out with documented facts is not begruding anyone. I have an extraordinary keen eye for detail and spotting spoofers and bullshIt so am perfectly successful in my own career, thanks.

bobbyD1978 · 29-03-2023 11:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120413153#Comment_120413153

Well now, do try and keep your anger in check when caught in your own lie.

First up, I didn't claim I pay 12%. Your incredible eye for detail fails you there.

My claim was that pensions are payable on full earnings. Your own post confirms I am correct and you the "liar".

Now let's just examine for a minute.

1.5% of gross

3.5% of gross

10% ASC after 29k

10.5% ASC after 60k

On an income of 70k per annum that would be in the region of 12% gross would it not? Of course it depends what part of the Payscale you are on and how much overtime you do where you fall.

Then you need to factor in there's currently 3 different pension schemes running together and the entitlement to the state pension. If you don't qualify for the state pension, that's 10k per annum taken out of the pot.

New entrants will only qualify for that at 65 like everyone else so their actual Garda pension is indeed only about 15k per annum on basic pay and income. Again, overtime will play a factor.

My pension, as I joined after 1995 will be approx 20k from the gardai with a 10k top up until I turn 65 when I lose the top-up bit get the state pension which I have paid into my entire life.

The pre 1995 chaps don't get the state pension, ever despite having worked their entire lives BUT YET the career criminal who never worked a day still does. That should anger you far more than what another worker does or does not get.

So, the reality is that the Garda pension is not, for new entrants, that good and not the luxury lifestyle that people still think it is. Is it fair? Decide that for yourself.

I would refute your comments regarding dangerous jobs. Again you insist on comparing gardai to farmers. Farmer's get injured primarily as a result of their own actions as do construction workers. Gardai get injured protecting others and as a result of deliberate attack. It's not the same.

Compare how many have been seriously injured or killed as a result of a deliberate attempt to do so. Compare how many have knowingly put themselves in that situation in place of another. Fishing I agree with you on, dangerous business and hard. You are however not a fisherman so not relevent.

Jim2007 · 29-03-2023 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120413165#Comment_120413165

As I said we have your mark. No need to go any further...

salonfire · 29-03-2023 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414845#Comment_120414845

Let's see your calculation of 12% gross on €70,000 then. I have worked it out and it's not 12%.

Let's see you do it so I can prove emphatically you don't know what you're talking about and you are unable to perform basic arithmetic. I'll show you the calculation but first I want you to humiliate yourself with your lack of knowledge.

Nody · 29-03-2023 2:24pm

Mod:

@salonfire @bobbyD1978 both of you need to take a step back, take a deep breath and take a walk around the block. You are in disagreement, that's fine; this is a discussion board and difference of views are expected. However both of you are getting a bit to riled up and personal at this stage and you are both getting to the point where warnings will need to be issued. Hence I ask of both of you not to post in this thread for 24h; let things cool down a bit.

Please do not reply to this post.

Rothmans · 29-03-2023 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411877#Comment_120411877

There is no supplementary pension for anybody on the post 2012 pension scheme. That is the issue other posters are raising. Mandatory retirement age for fire service, gardai, prison officers etc is 55 (which may be extended at their employer's discretion to a maximum of 60). To compensate for this, the old pension schemes allowed retirement on 30 years service for a full pension. However, this has been done away with due to the single scheme.

As well as this, the supplementary pension has been taken away for post 2012 staff, so that leaves employees in these occupations with their occupational pension only (15k if they joined young) and nothing to bridge the 13 year gap between mandatory retirement and Old Age Pension.

A good state job and a big pension

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