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Ireland running out of accommodation for Ukrainian refugees due to surge in non-Ukrainian refugees?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭crusd


    Anyone with even a cursory understanding of history would know humans have always sought to move toplaces with better opportunities. They would also know that where there has been an raise the drawbridge approach there has always been failure.

    As for your comments on Africa. Draw a line under it because it suits your argument is it? When the impacts of centuries of policy are real an continuing. The only two ways to “switch off the tap” on mass migration into Europe are to 1. Improve conditions in the counties from which people are travelling or 2. Make Europe a less attractive place to go through policies of economic atrophy. Lock them out never has a never will work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭tinsofpeas


    This person above is like the condensed version of every ill-conceived notion rolled onto one.

    Ireland worked perfectly okay, warts and all, before mass immigration began. Now that it has mass immigration, it works less well.

    Irish people did all the jobs in Ireland before mass immigration. Mass immigration puts negative pressure on wages and increases living costs, therefore the likes of meat factories are only going to attract those willing to live a lower quality of life, a la 6 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment. Irish people don't want that.

    Irish healthcare was run by Irish people before mass immigration, and it was never in the state it is now that we have mass immigration. Entire classes of of Irish doctors, nurses and adjacent are leaving the country ASAP because the cost of living, especially housing and depressed wages, makes it unattractive if not impossible. This is then shored up by importing cheaper labour into healthcare, which in turn makes the situation worse again. A perfect cycle of diminishing returns.

    And that's without getting into the fact of what Irish people actually want. Nobody was given a direct say on mass immigration, and what Irish people want in Ireland trumps everything and anything, including a phantom pyramid economy.

    The United Nations is increasingly warning against the fallacies of false economies built on mass immigration, the people don't want it, the excuses make no sense, it is demonstrably a bad deal for all concerned, look at how things are getting worse the more people arrive. Mass immigration in the 21st century is a dead economic theory walking.



    And if none of that rings true, all those bad notions in favour of mass immigration apply just as well with sending people to the antarctic. "It's not the people arriving into the antarctic that's the problem, it's the antarctic governments fault for not building enough housing. There aren't enough doctors in the antarctic now to look after the homeless people, so better send more people!" and so forth.


    And that's without out even going into the equally important, if not more important, lack of discussion on culture, identity, rightful expectation and so on.


    Mass immigration is flat earth territory, not a jot of it stands to scrutiny, and you better believe that when 9% of a population arrives within a mere 5 years, yes, that's mass immigration. Its a stupid idea from paper all the way to observed reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Speaking of Housing, looks like Minister O'Brien's planning reform has just been declared "unworkable" by the IPI i.e. the Planners!! I wonder does the wife of the disgraced former ABP Chairman still work for Minister O'Brien. Notice also how the previous Housing Minister is off galavanting on international manoeuvres with EU/UN. So yes, Housing is something that FFG are still toiling with and are determined to fix ;-)

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2023/03/27/government-overhaul-of-planning-system-rejected-as-unworkable-by-irish-planning-institute/



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    No one can really blame someone for coming to Europe to get a better life... however at the same time, you can't blame Europeans for being angry when people arrive and reduce their quality of life...

    Each house given to a Nigerian/ Pakistani/ Algerian family is one house not available for an Irish family to move into...



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    Places like Africa weren't particularly nice places to live before the European powers arrived... Africa has always had tribal wars and mass starvation....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,272 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Ireland before immigration was a depressing and miserable place, with huge numbers of people leaving the country. One million left Ireland in the 1950s and many hundreds of thousands in the 1980s. Those versions of Ireland also had large sections of the population who didn't leave caught in the poverty trap.

    David McWilliams strongly challenges the narrative that immigration is bad for a country economically and has published many stats to back up his point. For sure, there is a severe housing crisis but that has been caused by government ineptitude and bad planning over the last 15-20 years. Also, there are housing crises all over Europe at the moment....many European cities have run into similar problems as ourselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭tinsofpeas


    So if you were to accept the narrative that Ireland was a miserable place for many Irish people before mass immigration, and all the facts point to it being a miserable place for irish people with mass immigration...(housing, healthcare, education, social mobility)


    Then what is the effing point in importing more and more people?


    But the narrative you present is wrong from inception anyway.

    Mass immigration fuelled economies that strip social infrastructure, EVIDENTLY SO, are pure monkey ideas. Stupid, 24 hours a day.

    It'd the economic theory of 16th century colonialism brought home. Cannabilism.

    Mass immigration is a detriment, it could never have been anything else in such a small country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,272 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    You said in your earlier post that pre-immigration 'Irish people did all of the jobs in Ireland'. That alone tells us that there is no going back to that era. What person with a degree or a good Leaving Cert would want to work in a meat factory, or on a bin lorry, or in a food processing plant or as a cleaner in 2023 (when many of their peers and classmates might be working in an office or high tech industry)? The Ireland of the 1950s is gone....no amount of wishful thinking will bring it back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭tinsofpeas


    There's nothing wrong with work, all types. The problem is the remuneration and the quality of life it affords

    What you're advocating for, even though I doubt you realise it, is that these types of company belong in other countries.

    If your business pays only enough money to attract people from the developing world, well then your company belongs in the developing world.

    It's complete and utter economic fallacy, daydreams.


    The actual reality is that these companies and job types do not pay wages adequate to their environment. Their imported workforce are "happy" enough to emulate the conditions they left behind and, only naturally, drags the local population down to that level too. You talk of not going back to the 1950's, well how about the direction we're heading to the squashed tenements of the 19th century? No thanks.

    As said, it's the economic theory of colonialism from centuries ago, wrapped up in new clothes and brought home instead of far away. Farcical.


    Mass immigration used to fuel false economies is a dead end. That dead end is manifesting itself right this instance. It's going to continue gathering pace until those few stragglers accept that the future is not based on imported populations to fuel economies that benefit very few, but is instead based on moulding economies to benefit the existing populations of countries. These are the thoughts of both myself and the United Nations at large.

    Forward thinking, planning, common sense, sustainability, adjusting to environment, working efficiently, working productively, life improvement....these are things that run diametrically opposed to mass immigration.


    Mass immigration is a mugs game. And that would be fine in itself if it weren't negatively impacting most of this country in the most fundamental ways. It's serious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    This David McWilliams?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/PangurBn10/status/1622325534565744643



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Maybe it would force Irish people to pick valuable trades instead of useless degrees



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭crusd


    The anger should be directed at the lack of action on housing. Not against people trying to find a better life



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭crusd


    You do know it is possible to change your idea about a topic or change your conclusion when the situation changes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭crusd


    You talk of squashed tenements - if the population doubled we would still be at 1/3 that of the Netherlands. We have the room. Just not the infrastructure.

    Also, the jobs that immigrants are doing are in support functions to the larger industries. You can’t offshore the cleaner, the bin man, the waiter etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Of course. It's also good to acknowledge previously held opinions and explain why you shifted.

    I have not heard McWilliams do that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    If our population doubled we'd be at 57% of the Netherlands population.

    We'll have the room when our population accepts the need for building high density, possible high rise developments. And are happy for money to be spent on the infrastructure that these developments would need. As it stands our society just isn't mature enough for that.

    We seem to want migrants, but not build the houses/apartments for them to live in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    I don't have much time for the man, but his argument that migration is a class based issue and affects different sections of our society in different ways is bang on the money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    The anger should be reserved for the political class and left wing journalists. They are the people that have sold the Irish people out.

    Ireland is filling up with citizens that have no real loyalty towards Ireland. For a lot of new Irish an Irish passport is just a method to get a free house and free money.

    Why should Irish people be expected to have a lower quality of life to accommodate asylum seekers? Why should the needs of a Nigerian/ Pakistani/ Somalian be put ahead of an Irish person?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭dmakc


    RTE news lead with this tonight. If we're already over full (i.e. 400+ on the streets according to RTE) what is the logic behind taking more in? Do many head back?



  • Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭slay55


    Not all Irish have a degree or good leaving cert. Ridiculous argument



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭crusd




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,711 ✭✭✭jackboy


    The government guaranteed that all would be sorted by April. Thousands of modular houses will come on stream and all the alternatives needed will be in place. So, keep the fate for a couple more weeks and it will be crisis over. Unless of course the government were just making stuff up……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭crusd


    Yes, Ireland is the obvious place to go for a free house. That’s why non nationals are over represented in homeless numbers.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Ukraine are winning; it will be all over soon" is the new "two weeks to flatten the curve" 😃

    People are so gullible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,706 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    RTE interviewing a few of the migrants in tents, none of them could speak English so a translator had to be there to do the interview.

    What good would they ever be to this country not being able to even speak the language, they will only end up costing the taxpayer here money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    OK, let's look at the facts:

    1. The vast bulk of houses in Ireland were built by Irish people.

    2. The Irish taxpayer funded the vast bulk of social housing in Ireland.

    Why should any non Irish person get a house in Ireland from the Irish taxpayer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    The vast bulk of houses in Ireland were built by Irish people.

    Irish contractors or Irish workers or are you saying the majority of Irish people built their own house?

    Because using your logic the majority of houses built in the 21st century should have polish occupants. But they don't?

    Are you actually trying to claim that the majority of people in social housing are non Irish? Cause that's definitely not true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Can you back up that assertion? If it’s definitely not true, please link to current data. Thanks.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    No I am claiming they are over represented.

    Which if you read what I had posted was rather obvious



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    I can tell you one thing, I don't ever want to belong to whatever "culture, identity etc" that you feel you belong to.!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    So you want to belong to a country withno culture or tradition .A multicultural identity where different nationalities live a seperate parallel existance .America might be a good choice or Australia .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    Irish examiner at it again today about the NCT centre boss warning immigrant employees about noise in their accomodation and threats of being asked to leave the country. Yesterday they had a half story about a Donegal eviction. The usual bargain basement journalists on twitter pushing the story for likes as always. The narrative being put out there is farcical at this stage. Evictions are awful to hear about, but maybe the influx will be shown up for what it is now. Part of me is waiting to finally see Irish sentiment boiling over in the coming weeks so politicians/media/NGO bandwagon get their dues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Apparently we need those lads in tents to pay for our pension some day



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Massive migrant population in france over the years and they still want to increase the pension age. Go figure.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,923 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    see Irish sentiment boiling over in the coming weeks so politicians/media/NGO bandwagon get their dues.

    Guards reckon things are moving the opposite way




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    By tradition do you mean the tradition of sexual abuse and subsequent cover ups by our clergy? Or the physical abuse meted out, with relish, by the teaching profession. This is 2023 and I much prefer now that the people are off their knees and no longer beholden to the church. I'm also happier to live in a welcoming nation rather than a mean begrudging one, but I guess there are always a few begrugers and "concerned citizens " around the place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭tinsofpeas


    "Welcoming" has nothing to do with anything.

    There was never a choice put to people on mass immigration.

    In the absence of choice, there is only forced coercion.

    Forced coercion does not invite a welcome.


    If you want to argue over it, then support putting that "welcome" to a choice, support a politically actionable vote on immigration. Then it can be put to bed because truth is allowed breathe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    The country moved on and developed none of what you say has anything to with immigration. Ireland is a welcoming nation but the numbers coming now are not sustainable .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    You do realise we elect members to the oireachtas to make those decisions! At the next election you should vote for a candidate who shares your view, if you can find one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭tinsofpeas


    Spurious reasoning.

    If there were a malfunctioning nuclear plant in Dublin, put there with no say in the first place, and none of the sitting representatives put a voice to it, would that make it a case of "oh just general election things!"

    The problem is that a highly impactful societal change has been brought in by governments with no choice put to the people. Those same politicians that forcefully coerced the situation are deliberately avoiding putting it to a democratic vote.

    Hardly democracy, is it?

    And the problem is hardly going away either. To the contrary, the pressure is building.

    So, like all bad ideas forcefully extended without mandate, it'll be brought to its own conclusion under explosive circumstances.

    It'll come to the forefront as an issue because it is a forefront issue, and no amount of hiding behind undemocratic systems is going to hold it back.

    That said, I have and will continue to make it crystal clear to those looking for votes, the first to rightfully put migration on the table gets the vote. If they don't do that, off they can feck to find turkeys on their Christmas campaign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    There's a fella probably running in the election, he often runs but never has been elected, called Justin Barrett who sounds like he might be right up your alley. Last time I saw him he was being thrown out of a meeting that himself and his goons tried to hijack in Borrisokane Co Tipperary.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭tinsofpeas


    Immigration reform is right up this country's alley. Not just mine.

    Keep telling yourself that the people of Ireland want mass immigration without ever having been asked, while laughing about there not being a choice put forward.

    The dwindling few people in favour of mass immigration know full well that their "ideals" depends wholly on removing and preventing everyone else's voice

    It'll come to the forefront, so stock up on nappies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭minimary


    He said the number of people without accommodation is “too high”, but added: “regrettably we will see growth in that number.“We are under real pressure right now in terms of our ability to secure accommodation for international protection applicants.”He said this is despite “very significant” efforts by his Department and the support on offer from elsewhere in Government.

    Mr O’Gorman highlighted how Tánaiste and Minister for Defence Micheál Martin has arranged for Mullingar Barracks to be used to accommodate international protection applicants as of last weekend. However, he said: “We are facing a particularly difficult week this week in terms of the loss of hotel accommodation. So we are working hard to support and particularly to ensure that families are accommodated. But it’s going to remain challenging in the in the weeks and months ahead.”

    “We’ve taken very extensive contingency measures. We’ve been able to open additional accommodation and will be opening more additional accommodation around the country.” “I’m very upfront. We’re not meeting our obligations to everybody right now and we need to get ourselves in a position where we can... do that.”


    I thought all the Council were telling people that there is no emergency accommodation. Is that because Roderick's department is hoovering all of it up? When will they say enough is enough and there is no more capacity



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    It’s going to get much much worse before it gets better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Does anypne know where these 800 beds are? Which counties they are in?

    Its ironic that through his quest to get himself in position to meet the countries obligations in provision of accommodation, O' Gorman hasnt aligned the logic of limiting the number of Asylum Seekers with the number of available bed spaces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    You can put a clock on that and watch it go up weekly.

    Whats the magical number it needs to get to before mainstream politicians can remove themselves from a cloud of woke and have a sensible and reasoned debate about Asylum immigration numbers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    They came knowing this and took a chance. I find the media reporting on this incredibly disingenuous. The "let's spend more taxpayers" money is incredibly tiresome.

    We need to build custom made accommodation, or tented accommodation for AS, and keep them there until a decision is made.

    Of course this would mean reducing time to make decisions, and actually hiring more staff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,923 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf




  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭tinsofpeas


    It's not a competition between crimes.

    The "have you seen what this thing did?" versus the ancient "yeah but Irish people do bad things too"

    F*ck all that noise.

    Mass immigration is bad news for Ireland in just about every way possible. End of story.

    It's practical mythology at this point. Let's list out a few of the asinine catchphrases

    1) "but Irish people do that too"

    2 "but the pensions"

    3 "but how can you function without the staff?"

    4 "the housing crisis is not the surging population from abroad, its that we didn't build enough homes for them..."

    5 "but hundreds of years ago there was a bigger population"

    6 "that's racist"

    7 "but we need more people to look after more people to look after more people to look after more people to look after more people"

    8 "but the economy"


    That's comprehensive enough. All complete and utterly false, rote phrases that require lobotomisation.

    Instead of that neverending manure that goes round and round in circles, just say "okay" and move past them, physically and intellectually.


    Do you think these geniuses are going to explain how 180k migrants of just two years, in a housing crisis, are meant to be homed when the best that can be built is 60k homes? And how that's going to help Irish people? And what about every other year after that? And healthcare, and social mobility, and identity, and culture, and education and every other valid, genuine question going begging?

    No. These peoples brains have pulled an elvis and left the building.

    The only thing to discuss is how quickly the people of ireland get a say in this fiasco, and how best to get it. The current crowd that have stood over the creation of this frankenstein are gone, that's without doubt.



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