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The housing crisis doesn't really exist

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  • 28-03-2023 8:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭


    I know this is going to be a controversial take but it is my opinion and I have had a lot of people agree with me on this.

    If the government really wanted to house every person in this state, they could start the process tomorrow morning and within a year this aim would be achieved.

    Putting all politics and views aside, look at Mariupol. The city was completely destroyed and within a few months Russia has already completed several brand new apartment blocks and is continuing reconstruction of infrastructure at a rapid pace. Of course, I'm not suggesting the government should bring out the army to demolish large areas with artillery killing thousands of residents in the process, I am simply pointing out that if you cut out the BS and just begin building immediately it is very much possible. Likewise look at China, they rapidly build these huge ghost cities and then demolish them just so they spend their money in something. There are many videos on YouTube of people who build huge mansions in Africa and they are finished in a few months.

    Meanwhile in Ireland it takes two weeks to build a garden shed.

    Obviously the key reason for the success of the above projects is because they are all in places that have no regulation due to authoritarian goveenment. That obviously doesn't apply here and of course amongst some of those buildings there will be serious design flaws. But they underlying fact remains:

    They're just buildings, after all. It's literally cement, iron, glass and insulation, shaped into a structure. Once you remove all of the bureaucracy like permits and artificially high prices and other horseshite, it's fairly cheap.

    The government offers overpriced housing because they don't want anyone to own anything, they want a class of subscribers or renters. This is why young people in this country will never be able to afford their own home. There is no crisis, it is entirely in the government's gift that this is the way things are.

    The way the government does this is through natural market mechanisms. These two policies are responsible:

    1. Low (negative) interest rates mean people have too much access to credit. If prospective buyers can borrow millions, then the price of housing will be bid up by prospective buyers.

    2. Negative interest rates mean that inflation is higher than interest rates. Money can no longer sit in savings accounts or bonds. Buyers, who otherwise would have sat in savings accounts and bonds, suddenly have to invest. As a result, you have even more buyers of real estate, driving the price even higher.

    The solution, in my honest opinion, is commie blocks. After WW2 the USSR was crippled by homelessness. They erected the quick-build 5-storey Khrushchevka everywhere and solved it.

    This is sustainable. People want to live in houses if they get the choice, but as Mick Jagger says, You Can't Always Get What You Want. But If You Try Sometimes, You Might Find, You Get What You Need. And what we need is high-density accommodation which can be approved through such apartments.

    Quick to build, it's basically putting slabs together. Most of these structures in the former USSR are still going strong, heating, plumbing etc. As we have seen in Ukraine many of them withstand intense shelling. There isn't any mica or pyrite crap over there they need to worry about.

    This land the government wants to develop as announced today will inevitably be mostly houses. You can accommodate far more people in commie blocks. If the government were to fill all of that land with quick-build blocks they would practically solve the housing crisis. Commie blocks are actually quite good as explained in Adam Something's video on the matter:


    Again, many people will disagree with what I have said, but I genuinely believe it's the way forward if the willpower was there.

    Post edited by L1011 on


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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,714 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I stopped reading when you said "cut out the BS and just begin building immediately it is very much possible" as if it was a simple matter. I presume the rest of the post is equally ill-thought out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    I wouldn't try to learn construction from the Chinese



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭KilOit


    I stopped reading when you highlighted Russia and China to be looked up to with regard to buildings, so much wrong with those countries I'm not even gonna bother



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,385 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    “This is why young people in this country will never be able to afford their own home”


    Why do the opposition and people like the OP use this phrase all the time??


    There is 1000s and 1000s of young people in houses they bought themselves.

    There is young people moving into houses every day which they bought and own themselves.


    Pure lies and misinformation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Still less people of young generation who could afford to buy a house comparing to the older generations.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,311 ✭✭✭blackbox


    The government offers overpriced housing because they don't want anyone to own anything, they want a class of subscribers or renters. This is why young people in this country will never be able to afford their own home. There is no crisis, it is entirely in the government's gift that this is the way things are.

    Why do you think the government doesn't want anyone to own anything? How would it benefit the government if there is a class of subscribers or renters?

    Conspiracy forum ->



  • Registered Users Posts: 584 ✭✭✭CrookedJack


    This land the government wants to develop as announced today will inevitably be mostly houses. You can accommodate far more people in commie blocks. If the government were to fill all of that land with quick-build blocks they would practically solve the housing crisis. Commie blocks are actually quite good as explained in Adam Something's video on the matter:

    We did that already. In Ballymun. It did not work out well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Still not “Young people have no chance of owning their own home”



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,385 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Congratulations on replying to something that wasn’t mentioned.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Those huge blocks aren’t homes, they are kennels.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    Not too many NIMBYs around mariupol these days...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Obviously, that's just an exaggeration. Still, a statement shouldn't be so easily disregarded as there is a truth in it, with a pinch of logical error.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Surely, you got the main idea. Why not to focus to that, instead of pretending that you didn't understand. Exaggeration is very common to people. It shows their emotional reaction and the way they see a reality. It's a clear signal things aren't good instead of disregarding the whole statement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Too many TDs are landlords and too many ordinary people have one or two investment properties which they use as their pensions. Any kind of development of the sort you mention would undermine their investment. The housing crisis suits too many people.

    But yes, the there's no physical obstacle to solving the crisis; the obstacle is purely political.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    So learn the lessons and try it again with a better structure.

    The idea that just because some high rise was done badly in the 60's then it should never be tried again is completely ridiculous. High rise done properly would be hugely beneficial, its so very Irish to avoid it just because "Ballymun".



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,383 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    This…

    As of an article back in ‘18 that appeared in the indo ONE in five TDs and ministers are landlords or owners of investment properties, according to the then Dáil register of declared interests. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    A few houses here, a few houses there. Not working.

    By far the easiest option is to start building a new city in the midlands.

    Government buys the land and fronts the builders to build the houses.

    Developers can buy sites also and build private developments on them as long as services are built first.

    Only grant planning permission of for housing developments for the next 10 years in that new city zone. And always have the rule that infrastructure is being built at the same time as the residential properties.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Theyll have to figure something out because what they are doing is circling the sink hole.

    I think they should buy the land, start only give planning permission to developers for that land and then offer the houses to people on the housing lists around the country. If you dont take it you are off the list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,678 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    This has come up before. Where would the land for such a city come from? Where would the resources to build the city come from? Who would build it? Could the electricity grid support the increased load? Also, if we're supposed to be about reducing carbon, building a new city doesn't seem the way to do it.

    Realistically, if we wanted to solve the problem it would mean serious discussions on things that few seemingly want to talk about. Namely, immigration. Sadly though, we don't live in a mature society where debate exists.

    There is one thing that will "fix" the housing crisis and it will be some external event that radically changes the set of circumstances that created the current situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    We want homelessness.

    Houseowners (~68% population) don't want the value of their houses (their wealth) depreciating, and will vote for parties that keep property prices high, will object to planning, 'my' residential amenity, etc. Houses are still viewed as a wealth storage, not a home. It's been going on thus for decades.

    As stated, something akin to the Troika a decade ago is needed to tell us (Govt) what to do



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    OK, lets just go back to what we are doing and watch it not work again :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,678 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I do the same thing every January when I promise myself that this is the year that I get my six-pack back...



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,162 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I agree to an extent with the OP. Many cities internationally regenerate - they knock down and rebuild. Long thought that a large area between say Harolds Cross and City Hall has a lot of artisan housing of variable quality that could be systematically cleared and replaced with decent apartment buildings. Look about you as you go down Clanbrassil Street.

    Given our reverence for private property rights though, this is unlikely to happen.



  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I used to work on Clanbrassil street, and I know exactly what you mean. There are dozens if not hundreds of properties that are old and delapidated, that should be razed to the ground and replaced with modern designs. A friend of mine lived in a bedsit in an old georgian building in D4. It wasn't great but at 350 a month it was half what i was paying for m room in a house share around the corner. I always thought the retrofitting of georgian houses into bedsits was a worse disrespect to the former building than demolishing it and rebuilding it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Yes some of those Georgian houses need to be knocked down

    Living the life



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,384 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Yes.

    Every one and two storey house within the canals in Dublin should be acquired, demolished, and replaced with 4-6 storey apt blocks.

    Let the existing owners be the new owners of the firms that own the new apts, so they will all become millionaires in the process.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,714 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Is my sarcasm detector broken or are we now throwing daft ideas out there? FFS, you don't need to bulldoze our built heritage to create a sustainable housing system. Razing everything to make way for the likes of the crap thrown together by Zoe Developments is not the way to go.



  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Old, dilapidated, not fit for purpose buildings close to the city centre which could be easily replaced with modern buildings.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,714 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Many developers are allowing their old buildings to fall into a state of disrepair simply to avail of this. They then replace fine old buildings with the sterile shite that we see all around the place now.

    Should Dublin's Moore St for example be allowed to be redeveloped into new appartment blocks?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    in china they build 40 storey apartment blocks , we have a complex planning system with strict height limits on buildings .ireland is a small country we dont have a unlimited no of builders. alot of builders went out of business in 2008 or left ireland. if you look around dublin theres plenty of empty sites to build on.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/planning-refused-car-dependent-development-balbriggan-6030093-Mar2023/ apparently there has to be bike lanes nearby to get planning permission now

    the government in china has control of the economy in ireland we have a liberal open economy with planning regulations .if you look around dublin theres alot of old empty buildings and boarded up shops. we are a democracy theres no need to knock down houses , dublin city council could make it possible to build 20 storey apartment blocks in some areas.

    it would cost alot to buy old buildings in the city centre no matter what condition they are in

    the government need to make a long term plan ,eg build 30k housing units all around the country per year for the next 10 years



This discussion has been closed.
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