Provincial Squads - Categorising Players

aloooof · 29-03-2023 11:03am

JGP has bad a brilliant 12 months or so (probably his best in an Ireland shirt, even with some injuries), but I'd still rate Faf and Perenara ahead of him tbh. They've performed over a longer period, imo.

I think one problem with lists like this (apart from their subjectivity) is that there are tiers within tiers. Like if we grant JGP is in the Elite International and Murray is in the Proven International / European Cup level, then JGP is near the bottom of that ranking and Murray near the top imo.

And form is a huge factor. Picking a specific example, JOD is not having a good season, but not a top URC level player (but Conor Oliver is?). Not for me.

Paul Smeenus · 29-03-2023 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414557#Comment_120414557

Fair enough. I thought it seemed like a bit of a strawman, in that no-one else had accused JGP of being a passenger, but I'll happily put my hands up if I read too much into it. I certainly agree with the statement.

29-03-2023 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414719#Comment_120414719

Yeah, form is obviously a huge factor though. I had a look at this just on the Leinster squad over the past 7 or 8 seasons (haven't concluded the work) but you can see guys progress (and in some cases regress) season by season. Garry Ringrose is a guy who has probably climbed a tier each season recently.

Yeah, it's possible I've overrated Conor Oliver there, but I don't think there is a whole lot between him and JOD, and Oliver has had the better season IMO.

The gap between JGP and Murray isn't that narrow at this point now; notwithstanding Murray's good performances in the 6N. Obviously Murray at his best was World Class at reached levels JGP has never and likely will never get to, but for the past couple of seasons JGP is significantly better than Murray.

Quin_Dub · 29-03-2023 1:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409437#Comment_120409437

I think it would be perfectly fair to say that Porter is the best Rugby player in his position by a decent margin.

By "Rugby player" I mean those skills that every player should have - Catch/pass , defence , attack , positioning and overall fitness.

If you look at the explicit position specific skills , he would only be at the fringes of the Top tier but as an overall player in terms of total contribution to the game as it is currently played he is absolutely at or near the top.

29-03-2023 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120415490#Comment_120415490

He's one of the best players in his position in the world, and as much as he's down the pecking order in terms of certain aspects of his game, he does those things for longer and with increasing impact as the game goes on. He used to be a lot bigger, his physique now doesn't allow him to play as destructively, but at times it's like having another flanker on the pitch. Suits Ireland's game plan perfectly.

Quin_Dub · 29-03-2023 2:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120415760#Comment_120415760

Agree completely.

10+ years ago , he likely wouldn't have been considered "Top Tier" because pure destructive scrummaging played a far larger role in the game than it does today although to your point , he could have kept the bulk and been more effective if required.

But in terms of the game today and how Ireland are playing it , I wouldn't dream of swapping him for any other player out there.

Provincial Squads - Categorising Players

Comments