The Kerry Babies Case

Most definitely would beat the tooth fairy. :)

And that was exactly what was resiled from in 1966!

However, in this investigation any family with that kind of history or behaviour would have been quickly identified in the community and checked.

I think you’re being incredibly charitable in asserting that anyone neglected to mention a local, pregnant teenager to Gardaí during a huge investigation into a murdered baby.

@Neyite post isn’t at all far fetched; it’s pretty much on the nose, for any community, be they urban or rural. The point being that people knew what went on, but they chose to ignore it and turn a blind eye, and they stayed quiet about it because nobody wanted to bring any trouble on themselves. It wasn’t that anyone neglected to mention it, they purposely said nothing.

What Neyite’s referring to wasn’t just common knowledge, it was common practice. It’s why even today there are locals who don’t want to cooperate with any investigation, because they don’t want to be reminded that they knew everything, and did nothing, and they don’t want people knowing that they did nothing in spite of knowing exactly what happened and what was going on.

It still happens to this day that people know things and they don’t say anything. It’s not even that young girls and women conceal their pregnancy, if they’re even aware of it themselves in the first place, it’s that some girls and women will panic and do something they would normally consider unconscionable, like giving birth and then trying to get rid of the evidence -

https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/mother-jailed-for-three-months-over-manslaughter-of-baby-left-in-bin-1330126.html

There’s two explanations as to why the medical professional in the Caredoc facility didn’t realise the patient had just given birth - they’re either incredibly incompetent or, they knew, but didn’t want to know.

The couple who were arrested are confirmed as the parents of the baby.

You're right dreadful things were covered up years ago and the blind eye was given to what was happening. I completely agree.

Where the Kerry Babies case is different though is that it was a very public story that was never forgotten and another woman and family were accused in the wrong. It was revisited by the media time and time again. In the 90's Ireland began to change its views towards single mothers. This mother could have came forward at any time over the last 39 years - I dont believe she murdered her baby but she could reveal the story - she is more than likely a victim in this story too. Its possible the person(s) who murdered baby John are now dead or very elderly. Any threats that were made towards her at the time of the birth would have diminished over the years. If her family were involved chances are relationships became strained over the years with the trauma of this event.

The mother of baby John it seems was or is prepared to stay silent for the rest of her life. Over the last 39 years she or he should have done the right thing and come forward - this may have allowed Joanne Hayes to have lead a better life than she has done. Shame on them for not coming forward - every year of silence has made this case worse for them.

I think jumping to the conclusion of a massive cover up involving local gardai, the parish priest and local GP is a bit bonkers when there are far simpler, plausible explanations. It is a discussion group though so I guess it should all be entertained. 

Using your ‘simplest explanation is the correct one’ theory, there’s a simple explanation too as to why you imagine something which was common practice at the time is a bonkers theory that couldn’t possibly apply to idyllic wee Cahirciveen where the villagers are as innocent as they are thick as two planks, apparently. That just about describes every town, village and city in Ireland, anywhere really, where people would rather believe it just didn’t happen.

I don’t think that discovering the identity of the baby’s biological parents will inevitably lead to discovering who murdered the baby either. It didn’t in the Dalkey case where the child who is now an adult gave evidence that her mother took the baby, and the baby was later found dead -

https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/garda-issue-new-appeal-for-information-about-baby-murdered-in-the-dalkey-house-of-horrors-case/39628026.html

It’s incredibly easy from an outside perspective to say anyone ‘could have done the right thing’, and completely ignore any potential consequences for them of doing the right thing, and why they felt they couldn’t, or shouldn’t, and likely never will.

Does anyone know why its called the kerry babies case instead of the kerry baby case?

It was only one baby right?

Unless they had an active part in or actual knowledge of the violence that was done to the child the it is likely that the statute of limitations will have run out. Their other children must now be looking at their parents in a different light. It might be possible to be overwhelmed by an older adult if that was the reason why they did not stop it or come forward at or around the time. Thereafter it is less understandable. This is not an incident of theft or some other crime which might be covered up. They must have had some reasonable suspicion that the baby was theirs and to fail to do any thing about it for 40 years speaks poorly of their moral character. How they can even have proceeded to have further children without the overwhelming reminder of their first child.

The passage of time won’t have changed anything really. Consider that only a couple of months ago Government announced that people who were given up for adoption would now be able to much easier trace their birth mothers, and the furore there was about that, primarily because it violated the ‘promise’ that was made to these women at the time that their pregnancy and subsequent consent to have their children adopted, would be kept private -

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/women-who-gave-up-their-children-for-adoption-should-not-be-made-to-suffer-twice-1.3945606

I don’t think it’s fair to assume anyone thinks how Joanne Hayes was treated was ok or acceptable or that anyone else who didn’t come forward is responsible for how she was treated. They’re two completely separate circumstances. Joanne Hayes was vilified because even though she couldn’t be held criminally liable for murder, people were pretty much non-plussed about what happened to her given what she had done, which became public knowledge.

You really can’t imagine why anyone who knew who was responsible for murdering a baby wouldn’t come forward when they saw how Joanne Hayes was publicly vilified? Put yourself in that scenario and ask yourself would you come forward, knowing that every inch of your life would be picked apart and twisted in order to satisfy a baying mob mentality seeking “justice”. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I think it’s not unreasonable to assume people value their privacy.

To be fair we know nothing at this stage. The parents would have had a duty of care and at this point that's what the Gardai will be expecting them to explain.

Either they handed over the baby to someone else in the belief that the baby would be ok, or they committed the crime themselves.

If it's the former, then they'll need to explain that to the gardai.

One of the purposes of their arrest was probably for obtaining DNA samples. Once arrested they would have been obliged to provide DNA samples.

I agree. It's unconscionable that they kept quiet and watched why the Hayes were put through the wringer. It must be a source of great shame and regret to them. There is still the bad odour of the Garda investigation and all the facts need to be established at this stage, in the interests of respect for the force itself. This case is about much more than who killed wee baby John.