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Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,930 ✭✭✭Cordell




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,964 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke



    You've said the second part a few times, and maybe I'm taking it up wrong, but doesn't that work both ways? A biological woman who has a personal belief that a man cannot be a woman and doesn't want to share a womens toilet with a trans...woman (I think, I still get that one confused) should then not be forced, by policy, to share a womens toilet with a biological man who believes they are a woman. Because it can't be one way for it to be equal. Again, maybe I'm taking you up wrong, genuinely, I do gets awful confused with this topic sometimes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,204 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    the vast majority of specialists agree that being trans is an actual thing. And trans people exist. they go about their lives. Yes, they have a higher rate of depression but of course they do when they have people who abuse them. And as for autism, well be ablest then. Autistic people are not imbeciles and it's insulting that you think so. Are you a specialist in autism? Are you autistic?

    And all of that is besides the point. Nobody has a right to go full on Enoch and refuse to address someone the way they requested. Like I mentioned before, would you feel it was ok to refuse to use someones new name because they're in a same sex marriage? What if someone kept referring to someone in a relationship as "living in sin"?

    When you're in work, you keep it to yourself. You don't harass someone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Storming state capitol buildings but it's different cause it's woke apparently



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,157 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,157 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Twitter answered her question in the comments


    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,204 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    It's weird though. I remember when the statue was put up. No-one rubbed it's breasts it for years. At some point in the last 15 years it became a "tradition".

    And I'm not against the rubbing of a statue. I just think it's weird how so many people think it's a tradition when it's really recent.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    @Michael Wide Tongs Your point hasn't been missed; it's been addressed. And you've ignored the counter-point once again, on what exactly constitutes treating someone with respect or properly. No surprise there. Pretty much all the arguments in favour of pronouns are emotive rather than rational, arguably because there is no rational basis to support it, and there are rational reasons to question it, as Tavistock (which you've again ignored) clearly shows.


    Anyway, back to the Trinity crowd, and I had a read of their complaints about online proctoring of exams. Apparently exam proctoring is racist, generates stress, and so on. The usual unimaginative guff. So for example -

    An examiner viewing a student’s personal living space and living condition, decorations/posters, and potential iconography is unacceptable. It opens up discrimination of a student’s socio-economic situation, living environment, gender and political orientation, race, culture, and religious orientation.

    Ignorant, ignorant stuff - the first and most obvious issue being that an examiner and a proctor are two completely separate people, in the same way that invigilators in exam halls weren't the ones marking your paper and judging you on the clothes you wore to the exam. Exams are still marked anonymously.

    Then we go to another gimme -

    Being monitored and taking a real-time exam during a cost of living crisis and the aftershock of a pandemic will feed into the extraordinary stress students have been under since 2020. The additional stress can result in worsened mental health. Besides, the stress and discomfort arising from being monitored will affect the students’ performances.

    Ah, mental health and stress. Is it never a trigger? Again, no mention of how students coped being monitored by invigilators in exam halls. And God help them when they get into the real world of work deadlines, sales targets, etc.

    Acquiring the right infrastructure, including affording a private room, a computer, web-camera and microphone and stable internet at home is stressful and expensive.

    Bollox. I'm sure many will have more than enough equipment already available for online gaming for example. Laptops - and aren't they required for college these days? - will have cameras and microphones with them as standard.

    A student said, in the report from Trinity’s trial period in the School of Medicine, “I felt a bit embarrassed showing my room during proctorio settings, as it is very small compared to the houses/apartments of others”, indicating the discomfort felt by students while taking exams under Proctorio.

    Bloody heck, would you ever get over yourself. And I know that's not a very good argument in response, but it's not a very good point to begin with. Do people honestly think exam proctors are judging students based on the size of the side room you choose to do your exam in.

    And then the conclusion is Paisley-ite - just "no to Proctorio", the proctoring company. No suggestions of alternatives, no attempt to understand the issue, no nothing, apart from "no"

    Pure ignorance throughout. I know it's a minority group, but it just shows how easy it is to turn an echo chamber of ideas into a long rant that some people - lacking critical analytical skills usually - will take seriously.

    Post edited by cdeb on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,930 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Student organization of far left marxist leaning, what do you expect?



  • Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭ingalway


    I never said that you said I am a bigot. I am asking the question - am I bigot in the above scenario?

    Why are my opinions that a biological male should not be in a female changing/shower area not being treated equally as the biological male who feels entitled to be there? I don't feel that I am treated properly in this scenario.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Yes the reply's are wrong scrolling though

    She's the woman who some years ago made a big issue about a flattering comment a man made to her on LinkedIn. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3378620/Female-barrister-sparked-LinkedIn-sexism-storm-says-no-regrets-despite-branded-feminazi-receiving-rape-death-threats.html

    Just last week I unfollowed her Twitter account as was getting sick of her BS...and followed her parody account instead :D



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,978 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    My parents came for a visit to Dublin last year. They commented that it seemed to be mostly women groping Molly's boobs. My dad (being a bit of a nerd) estimated it was a ratio of 7/1 women to men. Since then any time I've walked past the statue I've noticed it's mostly women as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,930 ✭✭✭Cordell


    How did you notice it's mostly women? How did you notice a person as a woman without assuming their gender? What is a woman anyway?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Yeah, there is that. I mean, I'd obviously like a bit of educated cop on, but that's clearly not there.

    I suppose in the olden days these guys would have been printing up revolutionary leaflets for distribution and, assuming they were bothered of course, would have very limited reach. With the internet now, it's so much easier for any loon to put out their guff, and it's harder to know how much impact it has too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,921 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Have the vast majority agreed? I don't think they have. Have they that anyone who decides to change their pronouns is trans? Or have they agreed that a tiny, tiny minority of people may have this conflict, which of course is a hugely different thing.

    To suggest that their depression is the fault of people who wonder if trans is a thing is frankly disgusting. One of the leading psychologists in the NHS (and yet again, you've ignored this) said that many of the professionally diagnosed cases of gender dysphoria weren't that at all, but were depression. Not that they were depressed because they were being abused or insulted. But that gender dysphoria was a (rather unhelpful) way of trying to deal with depression, and that it was really a call for help in that regard.

    And suggesting I'm ablest or that I think autistic people are imbeciles or comparing this to someone using a married name is all nonsensical. You're just throwing out abuse now and hoping some of it sticks.

    Again, you've no rational argument there - it's just unsubstantiated emotive stuff and some random personal abuse. Which, when it comes down to it, sums up a lot of the arguments you hear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,930 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I'm sure, actually I know, that not all students are the same. But these, just by joining a raised fist logo organization, already have proven their ignorance and lack of cop on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    There are a number of gender identity related threads in the Current Affairs forum for those wishing to get into an in-depth discussion on the issues.

    This thread is for ridiculing the woke in as vicious but lighthearted way possible 😁




    edit:typos

    Post edited by AllForIt on


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,204 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    You dodged the question. Why keep bringing up autistic people? Seriously why? I'm autistic. I'm not more susceptible. And it's not just me. Autistic people are generally more rational and able to see through emotive arguments.

    As an autistic person, I'm also more susceptible to depression and anxiety. Most of this is caused by masking. It's the process of fitting into a neurotypical world. The world wasn't designed for people like me and people like me have to adjust and mask autistic traits to fit in. And there's always the reaction you get when you tell someone you're autistic. I don't because people treat me differently when they find out.

    Note: I'm not autistic because I'm depressed or anxious. I get depression and anxiety because of fitting into a non autistic world.

    So tell me again, why do you always mention autistic people? What do you have against us? Or is it that you think you're better able to make decisions than we are? We're just different, not mentally impaired.

    Likewise there have been multiple studies that show that people who are trans experience depression and anxiety because of the way the world treats them. The world is hostile to trans people. A lot of trans people experience suicidal thoughts. But there's a huge difference between trans people who are accepted by their family and peers and those who aren't. Those who aren't are far more likely to experience suicidal thoughts. Likewise there's a very small percentage of people who transition who detransition. But the majority of detransitioners say they did because of social pressures.

    And that's just the trans people who are out of the closet. For those that aren't the dysphoria can cause depression. The unease they feel in in the lack of congruence between their birth sex and gender identity can cause depression and anxiety. Plus they have to hide who they are. They have to mask too.

    Finally, every single large medical organisation in the world recognises that trans people exist. They all recognise that gender affirming care is the safest and best approach. If you want to disagree, find me one large national organisation representing doctors that states otherwise.

    I'm not an expert on trans people. I just look at the people who know about this stuff and follow their lead. It's the same approach I take with vaccines. I'm not a specialist in immunology or virology. I trust those who are. Sure there's a few doctors who disagree with vaccines, but the vast majority agree.



    And one last thing. It is the same as not recognizing a gay marriage. It's work. It doesn't matter what you feel or what you think. One person is living their life. That is who they are. It's not up to you, and certainly not during work, to tell them that they're mentally ill. It doesn't affect you. There are people out there who believe that gay people are mentally ill. Right wing christian groups have released pseudo scientific reports stating that they are deviants. And I'm sure that they are sincerely held beliefs.

    I'm an athiest. I don't tell people in work on ash wednesday that they believe in a cloud fairy. If I saw in facebook that someone had anti trans beliefs I wouldn't engage them on those beliefs. It's work, I'd keep it to myself. This is despite that fact that I believe in trans rights and think religion is silly. I'd happily work next to a member of the Burke family so long as they were professional and didn't bring their beliefs into the work place. Outside of work it's an entirely different story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden



    I have a picture of mysef cupping Molly Mallone from 1989 and they well glazed by then.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Pronoun use doesn't happen organically so its being forced into social interactions as is the case with the Pokemon kid. A judge (adult) asked this kid to list his pronouns , he got confused , his anxiety kicked in and he sniggered nervously . So the judge had him kicked out of the tournament.

    Social anxiety in kids is now lower down the pecking order than pronouns.





  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    “Gotta list ‘em all”… 😏

    To be honest, I’m more interested in hearing more about these communal shower facilities in the workplace! I thought my workplace was woke AF, but that beats it by a country mile 😳



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,293 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    We’ll be soon if not already going to be applying for jobs and listing pronouns on the application or being asked for them at reception on arrival for the interview.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    It’s already happening. Not only pronouns but also gender identity. There must be quotas to hit



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    This is not all that dissimilar to what the pokemon kid had to deal with and the pathetic judge is just like that woman 😆




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    I'm not dodging any question? The reality is one of the issues which arose out of Tavistock is that many people diagnosed with gender dysphoria were in fact likely to be autistic, not trans. Why? I don't know; I'm not an expert. But it raises serious questions of people like you who say that anyone who says they're trans just is, and there's no arguing against it.

    And again, an issue which arose from it was that gender dysphoria was actually, in many cases, something depressed people turned towards. Why? Again, I don't know. The easy, lazy, explanation here is yours, where you blame suicides and depression on people who question the prevalence gender dysphoria. That's disgusting, to be honest. In fact, a key point which from Tavistock was that maybe current treatment for gender dysphoria was wrong; maybe treatment for depression, and quietly ignore the gender dysphoria part, would have better results. So by trying to say we shouldn't have any debate on this matter, you're quite likely causing more harm than good.

    And the problem with your rant is that you yet again fail to address my issue. Just because someone changes their pronouns doesn't mean they're trans. It doesn't mean they're right. It doesn't even mean the respectful thing to do is to indulge them. In fact, the court case which helped shut down the NHS' gender dysphoria unit for kids hinged, in part, on the litigant successfully arguing that she wasn't questioned enough about her beliefs. She wasn't a he at all, and never had been. Doing what you suggest - unquestioningly accepting people's views on themselves, no matter how silly - is going to lead to more tragedies like Tavistock. In fact, I think it's inevitable given how another finding was that the NHS were doling out puberty blockers to kids without any real monitoring or tracing. Another point was that some NHS staff were being bullied and pressured to diagnose gender dysphoria, and labelled as transphobic if they disagreed. Again, this is very closely related to your view that you just don't question this sort of stuff. It's not good enough.

    But you try to dismiss the Tavistock scandal - which, to be clear, resulted in a section of the NHS being shut down - as a "weird study". I think that indicates you haven't an idea of the issues involved and, more damningly, have no interest in finding out.

    Until that changes, I'm not sure if this debate has any real value to be honest.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    .....



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro


    Already, unfortunately. It's worse than you've probably imagined too.

    I recently applied for an internal role and was asked pronouns, gender identity and sexual orientation as part of the application process.

    The "sexual orientation" one raises the most issues for me. Why does my employer need or want to know this?

    Since they're also very very proud of their diversity and inclusion policies, I naturally wonder if identifying as straight or male would work against me there. Would I be able to trust them with the data if I said I was gay? What if I say I'm straight but in the future I found myself falling for another man or a non-binary individual? I could be bi or pansexual and not know it yet but not knowing it and not identifying as it could affect my chances of getting this job? Could lying about this be grounds for dismissal? If I move to the new team and end up in a relationship with a female colleague and it comes out that I said I was gay on my application and they gave me the job so that they could meet their diversity quotas?

    On the most basic level it just feels like a completely inappropriate question for a company to ask.



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  • I would refuse to answer and I’m almost positive they cannot ask those questions.

    Edit: and even if it’s allowed they are leaving themselves open to some serious trouble asking.



This discussion has been closed.
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