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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Is there new legislation re Nightvision

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    #32
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Feisar


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379423#Comment_120379423

    Does the SE allow for NV/Thermal? My last 22 substitution appeared with the SE on it.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #33
    otmmyboy2
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383279#Comment_120383279

    Yup, if you have SE on your licence that signifies "Sight Electronic", and allows NV/Thermal/any sight.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



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    #34
    itisnotgrand
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭itisnotgrand


    FEC = ATF

    Post edited by itisnotgrand on


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    #35
    kunekunesika
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    Certainly will apply on next renewal, not going to spend 80euro to get something that might take a year anyway. Thanks



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    #36
    Steoller
    Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭Steoller


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383659#Comment_120383659

    Just wondering, does this also capture holographic and red dot sights? Given that the legislation talks about sights using a light beam, but is not specific about how that light beam is applied.



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    #37
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I highly doubt it but won't utterly discount it.

    A beam of light is a number of rays of light radiating away or from a source. Red dots and illuminated reticles don't use such technology but instead illuminate a central point within the sight which never emits, radiates or shines from the scope.

    Laser range finding scopes would fall more into this category but even those are not light amplification sights so it would be a hard sell to argue they are such sights.

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    #38
    otmmyboy2
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387954#Comment_120387954

    Pretty much what Cass said :-P

    This is the current definition of such in law(from the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act, 1990):

    (i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e), and

    So once it is not a light beam, which I would agree would imply radiating from the source, amplifying light or using infra red(ie most NV) then it should not fall afoul of the legislation.

    As it currently stands anyway 😉

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



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    #39
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,987 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383889#Comment_120383889

    At least the ATF once you have complied with the NFA leaves you alone,and hasn't been stupid enough [yet] to classify an optic as a firearm like us here.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #40
    kunekunesika
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    So following on from the report?? Which the AGS implemented as law, a few months ago??

    Do I apply for a stand alone restricted license for a nv unit?

    Or do I reapply for a restricted license with nv, for my existing un restricted firearm?



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    #41
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    It's only my opinion but AGS are not implementing the report as law, they've been implementing law.

    As I said in my opening post, post #2 in the thread:

    Cass - The law as it stands would suggest they are restricted. Bear with me as I believe this is what AGS are thinking.


    Section 4(g)(I) of the 1990 offensive weapons act simply defines that a firearm includes NV, thermal imaging, light emitting and light amplification devices designed to be fitted to a firearm.


    SI 21/2008 as amended by SI 337/2009 says that anything other than the firearms mentioned in paragraph 4(2) are deemed restricted. As such sights are not included in part 2 it stands to reason they are restricted.

    So it's a case of implementing the law as it is meaning you would need a restricted license for it.

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    #42
    kunekunesika
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    So is it as an accessory on a restricted firearm. Or is it a restricted license, just for the NV?



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    #43
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I'm not 100% on that.

    Is it a attachable accessory or a dedicated scope. The attachment, to me, would require authorisation whereas a dedicated scope is a firearm in itself and requires a restricted license.

    So add on or scope will give you your answer.

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    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #44
    kunekunesika
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    It would be a dedicated scope.

    I hope to apply over the next week. Want to be clear and convincing on my application, so as not to leave too much for further discussion etc...



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    #45
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Then it's a firearm, hence needs license.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #46
    itisnotgrand
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭itisnotgrand


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120427977#Comment_120427977

    What are you going to say in your cover letter to not leave any room?



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    #47
    kunekunesika
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    I still working on that bit🤣🤣



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    #48
    kunekunesika
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    So far,

    I'll reference the report and include copies of all documents that would support everything they are asking for.

    Plus more stuff, yet to be decided.



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    #49
    freddieot
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭freddieot


    Personally I'd avoid starting a conversation unnecessarily. Just apply giving your reasons for what you want and leave everything else about reports and policies out unless it comes up later.



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    #50
    tonysopprano
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428471#Comment_120428471

    Why?. Make your application, as per the existing legislation, stating your good reason. When refused, appeal to district court as per legislation. Why bend over backways?

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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    #51
    kunekunesika
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    I suppose, the lad ticking boxes in AGS, will be up to speed on the new, proposed, requirements. Giving them all they need to tick those boxes, is far easier for me, than going to the district court. Once you accept it's a restricted license application, you realise it's more than a one line cover letter. Most of it, is just copies of documents I have in my shooting folder.

    But I'm still doing my research.



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    #52
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,987 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Re the restricted/unrestricted NV.Just remember the FEC didnt't know themselves including the "experts" as to what the status is of these in law and have referred it to the Attorney General for clarification.

    The Committee considered that these devices are not among the firearms declared as non-restricted by the Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order S.I. No 21 of 2008, as amended by S.I. No 337 of 2009 and S.I. No 391 of 2015. As a result, the Committee believes that these devices are restricted firearms, which may only be licensed for use by a Chief Superintendent when the applicant has demonstrated that the firearm is the only type of firearm that is appropriate for the purpose for which it is required. However, the Committee understands that this matter is subject to a request for legal advice to the Office of the Attorney General by the Department of Justice at the time that this report is being finalised.

    And as these are reports,not law. they still have to deal with the current law as it stands. So apply now under the legislation as it stands.As my feeling would be they might pull a grandfathering stunt like with the SACFs.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #53
    kunekunesika
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    So is the current system, just send in a letter and ask them to add it to existing firearms license?

    I love to hear from anyone who got the letter? How were they dealt with?



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    #54
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428870#Comment_120428870

    And, if you have 2 or more rifles, does one authorisation cover them all or do you need to apply for each firearm ?



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    #55
    tonysopprano
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428870#Comment_120428870

    It is not a question. The LAW states that you can apply for these items, subject to a good reason, and your application is decided upon, on an individual basis. If you get refused, you can appeal to the District Court. OR do you believe that you have to be compliant with some requirements that might be proposed in 2045 or 2050. Maybe you need to consult a soothsayer or better still, a sheppard

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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