Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

So, do you reckon that the choices Ukraine have made as a nation have brought them "peace freedom and prosperity" ??

Because I'm sorry, but the evidence I see points to the complete opposite. The choices they've made, have been a complete disaster!

They're on track to lose a giant chunk of their nation - including the economic/industrial heartland. They will very likely end up being a much smaller landlocked rump state. All the death and human misery they have endured and will continue to endure in the post war period. And to top it all off, Russia will keep them under an even shorter leash for the next few generations than was the case before the war. No EU, no NATO, no western influence of any kind... they will become a very quiet and very well behaved subservient client state of the Russian federation for the foreseeable future!

The nation we knew as Ukraine before this war, is gone forever. They will still exist in some form of course, but nothing remotely like what they were pre-war. That's what happens when you put yourself in the middle of a game of tug-of-war between two rival powers. Your nation gets ripped to shreds. The American imperialists don't really give a damn about Ukraine... it's all about their own geopolitical position in the world. That's why they're quite content to smash Ukraine into a thousand pieces in some forlorn attempt to weaken Russia. (and watch out Taiwan, because you'll be next on the chopping block)

But of course, the western propaganda merchants will keep shovelling the same BS for as long as they can get away with it... and will hope you guys keep swallowing it. And I have no doubt that many of you will. Some of you guys seem to really enjoy the taste of it.

I came across this piece to-day:

These people show us how to do transport infrastructure. When this war is over we should hire a few Ukrainian advisors!

Hope your post was some weird. April fool's Day joke, but I'm sorry to burst your bubble. Ukraine won't be getting into the EU for a long time. No one wants to adopt a new bankrupt and deeply corrupt nation who's remaining young men will most likely emigrate, given the first opportunity and end up as a burden on other states although with the way things are going, doesn't look like they will have that many young men left by the time the fighting stops and a peace agreement.

Sorry but looks like Crimea is never going back to Ukraine to be honest, the Russians with stupid to give it away in the first place considering it is a vital port for the Russian Navy.

Invasion aside, Ukraine is notoriously corrupt. The EU is suppose to have standards for applicants. Are you suggesting those be diminished because a country was invaded? Like it or not, it will be many decades before Ukraine is eligible based on the EU's own procedures for joining and standards of governance.

All of the ex-USSR states were notoriously corrupt because the Russians who were in control were 100% corrupt, but after they left and became independent, joined NATO and the EU, freed from Russian influence, they started to eliminate the corruption, to the benefit of everyone, and now for them, there's no going back to the old days. Ukraine, since Maidan is following the same path. And as time goes on, and Russian influence diminishes, the more the corruption will be eliminated. Just another reason why the evil Russian influence throughout the world has to be eliminated. But Ukraine will be accepted into the EU, and in the not too distant future, and also 100%, they will join NATO. and play a very important part in it.

But they have made huge strides when it comes to corruption which is tied directly to soviet era hangovers,it's the biggest excuse why ukraine shouldn't were told but in the majority of cases nobody can show where all this corruption is taking place

There will be a forum to discuss our defence and neutrality stance this June. I know it’s not really important when it comes to the thread but it is all connected.

I just hope some positivity comes out of it

If Ukraine can get to the coast, as outlined above, they can cut the Crimean land bridge and establish fire control over the Kersch bridge, making resupplying Crimea impossible, and perhaps forcing a Russian withdrawal.

The 7 to 1 kill ratio that was being talked about was in Ukraine's favour in certain battles. If you have seen documents showing a 7 to 1 kill ratio in Russia's favour, those are doctored Russian documents purporting to be US ones. If you think I am wrong in this matter, please provide the actual source for your claim and I don't mean a rambling video or article.

There no peace deal 'scrapped' in April 2022, and it's complete misrepresentation to present the tentative discussions as some sort of tangible peace deal. There was no peace deal because nobody (Ukraine, US, UK) trusted Russia to stick to any agreement given how many previous agreements such as Budapest they had broken. Plus Zelensky had no mandate to trade territory for peace with an untrustworthy and unreliable Russia.

Russia are using uranium depleted shells already. Another complete misrepresentation.

You are missing something significant because you are only getting news from pro-Russian or anti-West (aka anti-war) sources. Therefore your post is a repetition of Russian propaganda, lies, and half truths.

There is only one country which fomented this war and it is Russia. The evidence to this is all over the thread- go back to where Russia started violating Budapest agreement and interfering in Ukraine, it was when Ukraine considered signing a treaty with the EU. Without the US there would be no war, because Ukraine would have fallen to Russia and it would have been massacres instead. Bucha writ large.

It is why country after country such as Poland, Baltic States etc joined NATO, because Russia gave them no other choice if they wanted to be free of Russian dominion. The only protection was with NATO.

Ukraine knows better than we do what the stakes are, what they can handle.

Nobody in the West is forcing them to fight - it is Russia that forces them to fight.