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Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Ryan will be a stopgap, but showed this season he still has something to offer alright.

    I think Loughman might lack a little size, but I’m encouraged by what he’s shown in the loose the last 12 months or so tho.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Lack size? He's probably the heaviest loosehead in Ireland?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Maybe I’ve misjudged that, but it seemed to me he was bit off the elite guys like Porter and Baile.

    Still, his handling is very encouraging.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I don’t think Loughman lacks size, he is quite lean for a prop but is in no way small. I think it can be deceptive some times looking at players on the pitch. When you stand beside him though you can see it. I do think his scrummaging could do with some improvement at times. As he doesn’t seem to transfer that power. Mind you, scrummaging is not the most important aspect for Irish props these days and Loughman has good hands.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Ya, he's been used a good amount for that pull back pass to layered runners a number of times to good effect. I think he'd be our starting loosehead this season, but for injury.

    Front-row has been a problem area for us against top tier opposition for such a long time now tho. I remember back to the first SF vs Saracens in the Aviva under Rassie (so 2016/17).

    Starting front-row that day? Killer, Scannell, Ryan. Would likely have been the exact same at the weekend, but for JR going to the Chiefs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,251 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Loughman is a big enough unit. He was developed as a tighthead before moving across in his early twenties which is potentially why his scrummaging is sometimes lacking slightly similar to Andrew Porter.

    He's still probably the best option there though and has handling skills that the other props don't possess which is key to being able to keep the ball moving and expose gaps in the opposition.

    Equally key for Munster is his age profile. Kilcoyne, Ryan and Archer are all 35 this year. It's important for them to have someone like Loughman available whose age profile gives a good blend of experience and still having his best ahead of him.

    Munster have to be allowed to sign another prop though next season. Those three lads are all thinking about retirement at some point in the next 1-2 years. There's three props in the academy but, to the best of my knowledge, none of them looked like they were certainties for significant professional careers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,923 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Munster have to be allowed to sign another prop though next season. 

    This, a million times over.

    The front row has been a chronic problem for years, and it's baffling to me how heading into a new season with Archer and Ryan on board is helping either Munster or Ireland.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Watching the Munster Sharks game back last night I simply could not get over how passive they were in attacking Sharks ruck ball and committing numbers to protect their own ball. The contrast to the ferocity of the Sharks clear outs was so stark.

    Granted, a lot of this is just down to the quality of forwards they had out there, but looking back at it last night, it looked like conditioning was a big factor for Munster (obviously exacerbated by the heat and humidity).

    Guys were visibly blowing 15-20 mins in, and the clips of the Munster team emerging for the second half looked like guys who's heads were gone.

    They've had a long time to prepare for this game, and the bulk of that squad were together during the 6N period. Hard to see why they were so off the pace.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,524 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Hard to see why they were so off the pace.

    you mentioned it already.

    obviously exacerbated by the heat and humidity

    it was 29 degrees and near 80% humidity. Every team would struggle in those conditions.

    by the 80th minute some players even found it difficult to raise their arms.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,251 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I don't think we can underestimate how much of an impact the travel has also. Not sure it would have made a difference but, given it was a Friday game against Glasgow, I was surprised they didn't fly out until Tuesday night. From arrival in Durban, they'd have had only 72 hours to get themselves ready for the game. Whilst the time difference is minimal, those guys would have had either very little or very poor quality rest/sleep on the trip before having to play in those conditions. At that level of performance, the fine margins count and that undoubtedly would have had a negative impact.

    The Stormers are in the middle of a truly horrible run of travel/fixtures right now (away to Leinster, home to Harlequins, away to Exeter, home to Munster all in consecutive weekends) . I would say that Munster should heavily target that game to secure their URC league finish. It shouldn't be as hot in Cape Town either.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,052 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,251 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    You're right. Was at a wedding for the weekend and all days ran into one another!



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I thought it was odd they travelled on Tuesday, I had assumed they'd be on the plane on Sunday or Monday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭cuttingtimber22


    I think they were waiting for the grand slam celebrations to finish.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Pretty clear how bad we’ve been defensively of late, this makes for interesting reading:




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Equally tho, over the last 5 games, we've averaged nearly 42 points scored. I wonder when is the last time we've hit that over 5 games? (I might try answer that If I get a chance, but I daresay it's a fair while too).

    Having a look back at it, for however bad we were defensively, I think we did see some of the good things we've seen in attack for us this season in that first half.

    I think it's pretty clear Casey's accuracy and speed is going to be crucial for us going forward (when you don't have a ruck, it makes things all the more difficult for him).

    One thing I spotted on the 2nd try, here's Casey taking the ball off the lineout launch:

    5 passes later, he's running a brilliant support line. He's so good at that.




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Aside from quoting the scores and in what games, what has he done? I saw very little interesting in his thread, more a snapshot from the results of a few games with little or no analysis on why, how, reasons/excuses, whatever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,236 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    agreed completely on the travel, they would have likely lost either way but id imagine they were completely drained even before kick off and add in heat/humidity to that - game over. scheduling has to be better if the SA teams are going to be in two european competitions in the long-term

    the trend in defence is worrying though even allowing for all that



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,251 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    For context, the Stormers are playing Exeter on Friday evening. They've been delayed but their original plan (which they only would have been able to pull the confirm on Sunday afternoon) was to arrive in Exeter on Tuesday morning to give themselves some time there to adjust.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,923 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Stormers are playing Saturday, but your point stands.

    On the flip side, they have to turn around and come home again before they play Munster the following Saturday, so hopefully they'll be wrecked or send out a weakened team.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,251 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    **** me. I can't even read a calendar at this stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Munster have confirmed that Dan Goggin has finished playing with Munster and will now play abroad.

    I thought the new regime might have suited him but he wasn't getting game time so I suppose he may as well try somewhere else. I think he had a year left on his contract.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    To underline how bizarre this was, I ran the same sort of analysis on Leinster and equally they never conceded 130 points (or anywhere remotely close to it) over a three game span since the game went professional (and as far back as I can get records).

    Only four times over that whole period did they even concede triple digit points over a three game stretch - 101 points between the end of 2011/12 and start of 2012/13 (losses to Ospreys 31-30, loss to Scarlets 45-20 and a win over Dragons 45-25), 101 points in the 2004/05 season (losses to Edinburgh 40-34, Celtic Warriors 37-16 and Munster 24-13), 112 points in the 1998/99 season (losses to Bordeaux 31-10, Munster 25-10 and Stade Francais 56-31), and 101 points in the 1997/98 season (losses to Llanelli 34-17, Connacht 22-13 and Munster 45-40).

    Across the past 5 seasons, the most Leinster have conceded across a three game stretch is 87 points - spanning the end of 2017/18 and start of 2018/19 (Win over Scarlets 40-32, win over Cardiff 33-32 and loss to Scarlets 23-21).

    130 points is an absurd amount of points to concede over a three game span.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Which all seems more appropriate for the Leinster thread...

    If you happen to have the data for Munster tho, I'd be interested in an answer to this:

    over the last 5 games, we've averaged nearly 42 points scored. I wonder when is the last time we've hit that over 5 games?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Bit of a surprise mid-season, but probably suits both parties. Honest, hard-working player who could never quite nail down his place for us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,923 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The run of three games includes 42 pts conceded against Scarlets, but if Munster had needed to keep that one tight, they probably could have.

    The real concern is the Glasgow and Sharks matches; these were critical games and strong Munster XVs named, but still torn asunder.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wonder do they have something lined up on the signing side, because it seems unusual the way they've cut James French and now Goggin mid-season, when both still had contracts to run?

    FWIW - both are right decisions that arguably should have been made earlier, but still unusual to see.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    With Nankivell signed up for next season, and only 2 regular season games left before knock-outs (if we manage to get there), I'd highly doubt they have something lined up for cover.



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