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Is the housing market transitioning to a sellers market?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Honestly, all to play for if inflation brings up wages then house prices will rise, if there’s widespread layoffs then the opposite.

    one thing I will say is that if the government don’t sort out housing quick, they’re going to kill the golden goose with American companies etc, they need to stem the tide of landlords selling up, because immediate housing b is needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,226 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...this wont be solved anytime soon, its been allowed to fester for so long, theres no easy and quick solutions, this is very likely to proceed into the next decade.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Agree with that, however I do believe that if you incentivised landlords and incentivised more investors you might plug the leak and possibly get more people In BTL, it’d have to be a pretty serious incentive though with the threat of Sinn Fein around the corner



  • Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭dontmindme


    You have brought up TDs being landlords in a way you are saying that they are looking after themselves. Nobody has ever been able to explain the advantages given as you can't use rising property prices as the reward because that only works if they are selling and they aren't. So you are left with explaining what laws and charges brought in have favoured small landlords. I have seen only one thing being reinstated that would classify in any shape or form. After that everything in the last 15 years to me as been punitive.

    Ahh will ya stop. You don't have to look very far past any of our TD landlords to find them hoovering up any properties they can in order to lease them back to the councils that their buddies are on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,226 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...we re currently experiencing a market lead approach, and it has collapsed, its never going to work, as the incentive has become maximizing returns, a state lead approach similar to places such as singapore would probably only work now, might never happen though, so.....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Wild accusation and still doesn't address what they allegedly changed is to aid small landlords. You can add yourself to the people who can't prove a often repeated claim. not even a vague accusation of change to laws



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,347 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I see very similar behaviour from mortgage banks as I did in 2008. I work on Engineering side of one off housing and like 08, the banks never supposedly stopped lending, they just put a mortgage beyond most average workers.

    I'm seeing build costings being returned by banks who require cost to build increased to a point that many are no longer qualifying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    I personally think we have gone too far already. I just dont see a way back. They could go all out and try to get current landlords to stay as that is their only hope. And that would take some massive tax reduction, like nearly cut the tax out altogether, but also some sort of guarantee that someone can get out of the market if its not working out for them that cant be reneged on (I dont believe they will ever get the ones who have left back, or get very many new ones to enter the market).

    I think we are here because they interfered in a normal market, made it worse and then kept making it worse rather than fixing what they did to it each time with new legislation. Nobody wants to be caught holding when the state finally filly take over private property. They are nearly there now anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,644 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Another thing to consider is that it is becoming increasing impossible to pay for the pensions of an ever growing number of people who reach the retirement age. Given that many people in that demographic own their home, I could see the state's taking the houses in order to fund the retirements. I don't mean that the guards will arrive to carry granny off, but rather I would opine that schemes like the Fair Deal could be amped up. For example, the state gives the pensioner a studio apartment in a care facility, and the pensioner gives the state the house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,449 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Never going to work a lot of people buy a house with the idea of also leaving something behind for their kids so I cant see how this will work as there are no options for Granny to move into studio apartment's and if any government did this it would be challenged its bad enough landlords cant access their property and now you want people in their old age turfed out of their own house. This is crazy I appreciate people who are younger are having a hard time getting on the ladder but its not the fault of those who own their own house, these people in a lot of cases have worked their entire life and struggled and paid off a huge mortgage to have the house and now you want them frog-marched into a non-existent apartment?? Any government bringing this in will be gone the blue rinse brigade are the ones who always vote.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,644 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I did not at any point state that I want that to happen, and I'm not sure why you think that I do. I merely made a comment on what I believe could happen. I absolutely do not want to see the state's taking over private property, but I think that that is where we are going, because it seems to be what a great many people do want to see happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,449 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Fair enough I have just pointed out why it will never happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    There are 2 bed boxy apartments near me that were selling for 120k in 2019. They are now being listed for 187k .



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭ingo1984


    As my mother always said, 'fools and their money are easily parted'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,644 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    You believe that it won't happen, but you could be wrong. I didn't think that the world would go insane in 2020, but it happened. I personally know people who are planning to sell their house to fund their retirement, and they have children.

    The state is already bringing in a bill that, if passed by a referendum, will allow it to "delimit private property". I could well be wrong, and I hope that I am, but I see a bleak future ahead in terms of private ownership of property.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,449 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Not only would this force a challenge that the gov would lose which is the main reason for the eviction ban being lifted there would also be a huge implication for investment inward to the country why would you buy anything or set up anything if it can be taken at the whim of the government of the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Oh I agree I think if they want to keep people or attract other investors it’d have to be something completely radical Idcho even further and say 0 tax and pay extra on top for providing the housing service.

    I also think it’s gone too far, and the risk of non paying tenants is huge, if the government is not prepared to allow delinquent tenants to be evicted in a month, then the people providing the housing service will have to be compensated for this huge risk.

    People can shout and cry about landlords all they want but unless there’s a radical rethink on how you attract and keep people providing the housing service to the state then you soon won’t have a housing service



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Looks like even the REITs are trying to cover themselves now against the chances of getting a bad tenant.

    I just a few minutes ago heard a new one that I have never heard of before form a colleague.

    After a few weeks searching himself and his girlfriend and found an apartment.

    Among everything else they have sent, the agency (I think its a REIT owned property) has asked them to provide a statutory declaration that they have never overheld (if thats even a word) and have always paid rent on time in any property that either of them have ever rented.

    I was aware that people were being asked for bank statements, refs etc. Even refs from 3 previous landlords, but this one is new.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,449 ✭✭✭fliball123


    This is a great idea it will put the mockers on any tenant taking the p1ss as if they do and are then put out of their rental they will find it hard to find a rental again. This is a great idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    And that’s the high risk of over holding you don’t hear talked about, you’ll never rent another place again if you engage with it



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Living the life



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    No idea. Dont know the ins and outs of it. Never heard of it before. But im thinking its propbably the same type of declaration that a landlord has to give when they give notice to a tenant when they want to sell. Dont know what the consequences of lying are for a tenant on it.

    I know landlords are looking for previous landlords references no, not just someones current landlord. Because their current landlord would lie for them to get them out. So better asking the previous one who already has them gone what he/she thinks of them for the truth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭Shauna677


    Not every elderly.person ends up in a nursing home, think the figure is just 5%. The vast majority of people stay in their own homes right to the very end.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    I think it's about 5% of over-65s are currently receiving long-term care. This is very different from "will I ever have to receive long-term care?" which has to be considered from an actuarial perspective. As you age you will either die, or your odds of receiving long-term care will rise dramatically



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Is the property market in the process of transitioning to a buyers market- yes and no.

    Prices have stagnated and are falling slowly in Dublin- and only rising at very low single digit rates elsewhere.

    The issue is affordability more than anything else. There is still a scarcity factor which is artificially supporting prices- but especially with money becoming more and more expensive, prices are stagnating and beginning to fall.

    So- for prospective buyers- do you buy now or wait for prices to fall a bit, but have to pay a higher mortgage interest rate?

    For sellers- its an easy game- get out the door as quickly as you possibly can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭J_1980


    For sellers - to do what with the money?


    dont hold cash



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