This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

Gumbo · 02-04-2023 5:23pm

My year long average for that car is 235 wh/km.

I don’t pre heat, I don’t condition, I drive in city, I drive as I would any other car and I drive in sports mode 100% of the time with climate settings to auto.

Very efficient in motorway runs, 180-190 and possibly lower if you tried.

Casati · 02-04-2023 6:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430853#Comment_120430853

You commented back to me specifically about not 'ridiculing' despite the fact I did nothing of the sort, but it doesn't take long for the mask to slip and you to blatantly ridicule Renault Banque without any facts to back up your claim about them. Did you consider employees of that company might be posters here?

That white Fluence that sold under 2k didn't have a lease outstanding. Once they are 10 years old Renault can't enforce the lease as they will not longer honour their side of the contract (i.e the warranty) and have been 'selling' the lease for 1 euro. Despite his last comment, Unkel is well aware leases have been bought out for years at small money, so I would advise anybody to totally ignore his posts if they want impartial advice.

Casati · 02-04-2023 6:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431532#Comment_120431532

How risky is it buying one of these with only the battery warranty - i.e. Ive heard loads of issues from cheap stuff like door handles to v dear stuff like the whole roof cracking and weird electrical stuff but I wonder is that hyped up or would you want to keep a reserve for big ticket items that might fail?

RM Ernest · 02-04-2023 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432240#Comment_120432240

Don't know to be honest but the 3 has a good reputation compared to the older s models.

Gumbo · 02-04-2023 7:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432240#Comment_120432240

You are mixing up door handle issue with the Model S here.

Every single Model 3 in Ireland is still under warranty (mileage aside) so there shouldn’t be much if any horror stories here but I may be wrong if you can link to some please.

...Ghost... · 02-04-2023 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432221#Comment_120432221

Go back and read what I wrote. Nowhere did I say you had ridiculed. I was responding to your comment and referring to those who had.

Mask slip? What are you on about? Go through the EV forums and you'll see plenty of examples of RB not meeting their side of the deal and making customers jump through all sorts of hoops to get anywhere. They didn't just lease Fluence batteries, they leased the ZOE in large numbers. It used to be impossible to buy out the lease until people tried to get RB to honour the agreement....at which point they would often offer the customer to buy the battery out.

Interesting you say Renault will not honour their side of the agreement in the next paragraph having asked if I have proof. Do you have proof to back up your claim? Because RB are still charging monthly rental fees on cars 10+ years old that (according to you) they will not honour. I know whose posts I need to ignore, and it's not the guy selling a car. 🙄

randombar · 02-04-2023 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431913#Comment_120431913

Is there any table of the EVs and their wh/km? I understand it depends on driving, type etc. but I'm guessing this figure depending on the variance could cost or save you €€€

Gumbo · 02-04-2023 8:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432641#Comment_120432641

Check out EV Database.

But you are correct, it’s all dependent on how you drive them.

randombar · 02-04-2023 8:44pm

I’m guessing I’d drive every car the same way so the number would be relative.

Casati · 02-04-2023 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432526#Comment_120432526

I thought the car warranty ran out at 80,000km - bar the battery warranty?

I don’t have link to door handle but my cousin had two fail in the first year- repaired for free of course. He had various software or electrical issues - said he won’t be buying another. I guess my concern is bigger ticket items failing and costing a fortune to replace via Tesla but maybe that’s not a major risk.

I think that car is v well priced in fairness, some performance for the money. They are getting cheap in U.K. but that one would be cheaper than importing anything I’ve seen too.

slave1 · 02-04-2023 9:05pm

@Gumbo is that the same era M3P as yours, just wondering real world range and how that now compares to brand new M3 RWD?

Gumbo · 02-04-2023 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432840#Comment_120432840

Yes you’re correct on the 80k km cut off point.

Always a risk buying a car out of warranty of course. I haven’t heard of many but ticket items going but of course, still a risk there.

Gumbo · 02-04-2023 9:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432884#Comment_120432884

Long term average is 235 Wh/km.

I drive it like any other car I have. I just get in and drive. I don’t preheat or pre condition. I barely charge at home so never plugged in to precondition before going anywhere.

I’ve done 9000km in the last year so not a big Mike muncher.

But on trips where I try I’ve seen 160 Wh/km and lower but that gets very boring. If i needed the range then I’d hypermile to avoid stopping and using the dreaded public system!

The car says I’ve done 80km for 15 kWh now since my last charge on Wednesday so stretching that out to a 70 kWh useable battery gives me 375km. But I actually think the battery has more useable. 82 kWh I think is the headline. And again. That’s 80km of hop in a drive across Dublin and city runs, school runs etc

400km plus is achievable quite easily if you tried.

Casati · 02-04-2023 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432944#Comment_120432944

Any idea what motorway driving equates to - i.e. ideally driving at the limit rather than 90kmph stuck behind a truck, would it do 300km even in winter?

Gumbo · 02-04-2023 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433031#Comment_120433031

Never tested but 300km should be easy. It will do Belfast and back at 110ish and that’s over 350km.

But I’ve never drove at 90 behind a truck either 😂😂

creedp · 02-04-2023 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431458#Comment_120431458

Seems very good value since most 2020 SR+ cars are at similar or more money with most LR models priced well in excess of €40k

unkel · 02-04-2023 10:07pm

@Casati - "Once they are 10 years old Renault can't enforce the lease as they will not longer honour their side of the contract (i.e the warranty) and have been 'selling' the lease for 1 euro. Despite his last comment, Unkel is well aware leases have been bought out for years at small money"

No, I wasn't aware the leases can be bought out for a fixed sum of small money (like €1 or sub €1,000 anyway). I already acknowledged this and I was the first to thank the post that showed the cheap lease buy deal

Also the first time I have seen it mentioned that the lease only lasts 10 years. I'm pretty sure I have heard recently from people with over 10 year old Fluences that are still paying the lease though. Maybe we should ask someone from Renault Banque to confirm this

slave1 · 03-04-2023 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432944#Comment_120432944

Thank you, so the degraded range from the era M3P for sale is quite close to range of new RWD M3 with perhaps the RWD M3 pipping a 3-4 year old P.

This is not a negative on the M3P, it's more to show the improvement in the RWD battery tech in the intervening years.

M3P still wins on performance and audio

creedp · 03-04-2023 12:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434484#Comment_120434484

This highlight an issue with used EVs which didn't really apply to ICEs. Granted it is expected that used EVs will have lower maintenance costs but the reducing range of EVs as they age, coupled with the current rapid developments in battery technology, is an undesirable factor associated with used EVs ownership at present, especially for people doing higher mileage (what's the equivalent term for kms?). Will be interesting to see how it impacts on depn levels once the current supply & and demand differential narrows

Gumbo · 03-04-2023 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434484#Comment_120434484

I would have thought a new RWD would beat my P on a range test all day long.

Also, are you basing the “degraded” range from the WLPT? Which we know cannot be achieved.

I don’t know how much the batter has degraded at this stage. But I know damn well that it would never do the claimed 530km as the WLPT figure indicates.

kanuseeme · 03-04-2023 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432240#Comment_120432240

What I learned from what nearly every one else does here is buy, praise and then sell preferable before the warranty is up, repeat, when buying, all the time praising, any faults can be ignored or its a bonus if you have warranty, for example a new battery is a bonus.

The fluence was cheap, even if it was a 1000 a year to lease, I would have only started to pay when it was bricked, you could have at least got 2 years of leasing before paying the same as the next highest fluence or 5 years before the next highest.

Gumbo · 03-04-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434593#Comment_120434593

The only EV’s I’ve kept out of warranty for any period of time were Model S’s. Would still have one today only for the fantastic returns on them buying and selling during the pandemic.

slave1 · 03-04-2023 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434591#Comment_120434591

Hi, I took "degraded" range from your last sentence, "400kms achievable", same range (plus a bit more) applies to my 221 M3RWD so easily achievable for any 221 onward RWD (on 18's)

ELM327 · 03-04-2023 12:49pm

400km is achievable, 300km is realistic motorway range. My 222 RWD 3 is showing lifetime average over 20k km since september of around 170wh/km

creedp · 03-04-2023 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434659#Comment_120434659

As range is my priority in an EV, I was considering buying a 20 M3 LR, with 4wd and power boost being a nice bonus. However, from what you're saying if range is the priority Id be far better off considering buying a 22 SR+, which are currently cheaper than most 20 LRs

slave1 · 03-04-2023 12:54pm

I split my usage into winter/non-winter, haven't looked at it in ages, must post results here

slave1 · 03-04-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434708#Comment_120434708

Yes, that's a point that has been raised here so wanted to get Gumbo's real life range. A LR or P will easily beat a RWD in terms of range from onset but after around 4years the faster degrading of the LR/P battery pack (different chemistry to RWD pack) results in it being the same as a new RWD.

In reality the RWD will be higher range as 400kms+ is easily achievable and a RWD can charge to 100% the whole time whereas a LR/P is recommended to charge to 90% for day to day use so that extra 10% is only recommended when you are going to jump into the car and use it immediately

slave1 · 03-04-2023 12:59pm

..and before you ask, no, the chem in a RWD battery cannot physically fit in the space of the LR/P car battery

Gumbo · 03-04-2023 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434659#Comment_120434659

I wonder what the M3P would do on day 1. Any way to test degregation?

kanuseeme · 03-04-2023 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434633#Comment_120434633

Praise, preferably sell before the warranty is up, unkel prices, it's not rocket science, well done, so you had a 2013 model S?

This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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