Match thread Mexicans v Wildlings (Leinster v Ulster) Kick off 5.30pm 1/4/23

Dubinusa · 03-04-2023 1:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432848#Comment_120432848

Oi!

jacothelad · 03-04-2023 7:36am

One of the problems for Ulster Rugby is the movement of post school players to universities in GB. Queens and UUJ can't offer places to everyone and some courses may not be available. Since Rugby in Ulster is mainly centered around Grammar Schools, the majority of it's pupils will seek university education and for many reasons this is in GB. Once you move to places like Edinburgh, Leeds, Oxford, Cambridge etc at that time of your life, nearly all those who go make lives for themselves where they are. They don't return. Recently Dundee University has just won the UK university rugby championship. 9 of their starting players are from Ulster. The problem in microcosm.

03-04-2023 11:29am

Incredible stat from this game that shows the disparity in the two packs, and a large reason as to where the game was won and lost:

Leinster's starting 8 carried the ball 80 times for 114m (which is poor by Leinster standards, but reflective of the conditions), add in another 14 carries for 24 m off the bench gives overall carry stats for the Leinster pack of 138 m from 94 carries.

Ulster's starting pack by contrast carried 23 times only, and for an incredible 8m. Add in the bench and you get another 8 carries, and another 9m, giving a total of 17m from 31 carries.

As I mentioned, Leinster's carrying was probably at a low on the season at only 1.4m per carry, but Ulster's forwards by comparison were only getting barely over half a metre per carry, and off a significantly lower volume.

Jack Conan on his own had more carries than the entire Ulster starting pack, and for nearly 3x the distance as the starting pack and subs. Four Leinster forwards had double digit carries (Conan, Baird, James Ryan and Dan Sheehan).

Foxtrol · 03-04-2023 2:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433018#Comment_120433018

Irish players absolutely can move abroad though.

One of the reasons they do not in large numbers is because of the draw of fulfilling their childhood dream of playing and winning with the team they grew up supporting, many times alongside friends they moved through the age groups with. Another reason is being able to stay close to family. Another is being able to go to college with their school friends.

If you take all of that away by forcing players to move to different parts of the country then it is going to be much harder to compete with the higher wages that generally offered abroad.

The 'fairness' you talk about in US sports is far more an accidental byproduct of team owners trying to make more money and is only possible because they have a monopoly in each sport, where they artificially suppress player wages and have the ability to treat their players like cattle - forcing them where they wish without any consent or any right to negotiate a wage for several years.

arsebiscuits1 · 03-04-2023 2:51pm

Looking back at Ulsters try off cross field kick I can't figure out how Leinster got it so wrong.

They play a basic exit shape when reclaiming Ulsters restart. 1 phase and boot upfield by Lowe.

Lowe keeps it on the pitch which I'm presuming was intentional as Leinster normally look to make the opposition play it.

Nothing here is complex but once it's kicked it all goes pear shaped.

Keenan and Larmour chase up and don't put much pressure on Lowry or Stockdale (it's actually Baird who get's close)

Stockdale puts up a reasonable but very manageable Garryowen. But we have no one there. No sheparding runners, no back field cover except JGP. Nothing.

Henshaw, JGP and VDF are all vaguely close to the ball but no where near it. Stockdale puts it between them and easily takes it.

Quick ruck ball and our widest man is Furlong whose inline with the post. Inside him is Ryan, Keenan, Molony and Porter in that order.

What were our back 3 doing?? How did our entire team lose their shape so badly? Ulster scored 40 seconds after kicking off. Completely unacceptable for Leinster to get that bent out of shape even on turnover ball like that.

I can't pinpoint who was at fault but I suspect a few players were lambasted on that review.

Dubinusa · 03-04-2023 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435628#Comment_120435628

One thing to consider over here is, before the nhl salary cap there was the Redskins; Cowboys, 49ers and the Giants winning almost all the previous 10 super bowls. They were by far the richest teams and spent whatever they wanted. The cap did even the field. That's why we have seen teams like Tampa, Baltimore the Chiefs and N.E win.

Baseball does not have a salary cap. Some players are up to 40 million a year.

Nhl does have a cap. As does the nba.

Foxtrol · 03-04-2023 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435746#Comment_120435746

Fairness is only a byproduct though, the owners just didn't want to continue in an arms race where it meant them spending more and more of their money to be successful. The salary cap really doesn't relate to Irish rugby though as they already have a salary cap in place via IRFU oversight.

Where things might be 'fairer' at the same time they have have only gotten worse for NFL players. They're now not allowed to negotiate their initial salary and can be locked into a team that they didn't choose for up to seven years - when the average length of an NFL career is just over 3 years.

It isn't a model we should ever want to follow if we care about the players.

03-04-2023 3:35pm

One other area where there is a significant disparity between the teams on the stat sheet:

Ulster made 203 tackles, and missed 15 of them (tackle accuracy of 93% - which is still very good), but Leinster had 98 tackles and only missed 2 of them, for a tackle accuracy of 98%, which is pretty much unheard of at this level.

sydthebeat · 03-04-2023 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435705#Comment_120435705

im not quite sure what Lowe was doing defending on the 15 meter line on his OPPOSITE side about 20 seconds after putting in that clearance kick.

Larmour was in position to defend there, so there was no need for lowe to be so far across. Why keenan ended up defending in midfield is beyond me. There should have been loads of communicating by Ryan and Furlong to get Keenan out there to cover lowe, and let lowe cover midfield. Furlong must have been **** it when he sees balacoune in from of him with hume outside.

looking at it again id be putting it mainly on keenan, there was no need for him to join the defensive line in the position he did. He chased the initial clearance kick and then Lowry infield, but he should have covered wider when he was running backwards and seen lowe on his opposite wing

That been said, it was a wonderful try and very well spotted and executed by Billy B

Match thread Mexicans v Wildlings (Leinster v Ulster) Kick off 5.30pm 1/4/23

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