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The eviction ban

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    So still let the landlord take a 3 month loss. Dont think thats going to help attract new landlords in or even those who are in already to stay.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,002 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    What you need to do is to add Donald to your ignore list, it makes life a lot simpler. They don't care about the eviction ban they just want to argue. If everybody was against it they would be for it. Just to argue with people. Add them to your ignore list and move on



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,374 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    I broke my own ignore rule to see were you still spouting the same tripe - and I was wasting my time and energy, you are - do you even read the posts that you respond to with your automaton, ChatGPT-like responses?

    I said I was willing to manage the risk, I said I made losses in the past, I said I was willing to rent on into the future balancing losses and gains - I specifically said that it was not the financial aspect that made me decide to sell, I said that there was no tax/financial solution at the moment that would have persuaded me not to sell.

    Don't bother replying to this as you're still on ignore and I won't be making the mistake of looking at any of your posts again. Just wanted to point out the absolute folly and stupidity of your WUM posting, and encourage others to deploy the ignore button, it gives great peace!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    There has to be a balance here- it will realistically take 3 months between notice periods and what not- but not 6 months or over 1 year like many landlords are experiencing.

    And Im talking about the “won’t pay” brigade, not those making an honest effort or temporarily out of work- im not advocating ruthlessness with one months rent missed but there are too many people out there taking advantage of the government not supporting landlords.

    Again the government are misusing the landlords to hide the real problems out there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,669 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Three months is a hell of a lot better than a year and a half or longer.

    Remember that LL will have the deposit. So it brings rent risk back to two months. The real advantage of a rapid termination process in the case of non payment is it encourages tenants not to stop paying.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    You need to protect landlords from loss, not encourage it though.

    If there was an easy way to chase down and recover money owed by tenants who didnt pay the rent while you were trying to evict them then that would be good.

    The only way to do that with 3 months notice and a guarantee of them beiong out after that 3 months (and arent the bleeding hearts looking to reduce the amount of deposit that a landlord can charge in advance. Not to mention the fight they have with the RTB to be allowed to recover damages from the deposit) is to have 3 months deposit, plus a mechanism where they can be made to pay for damage they have done too. The problem is that tenants who choose to take advantage of the situation where they can get away scott free are ruining it for all other tenants.

    Total shambles. And only the tip of the iceberg.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,374 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    That's a question that I have never seen addressed here.

    Whatever about getting the rental scene sorted for the working population, what on earth happens to all those people who are still renting when their earnings mostly fall off a cliff on retirement (esp given our reluctance to engage in proper pension planning, if all of the financial gurus are to be believed over the years)?



  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    So now we're worried about scaring off the big bad institutional investors? They can handle buying and selling properties with tenants in-situ like they do in other countries. If it made sense to build and put tenants into a building, it makes sense to buy an already tenanted building.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    There’s no “perfect” solution especially not one that could be posted in a chat thread, I grant you that.

    But whether losses can be underwritten by government assuming standards of dwelling are met by the landlord in the first instance etc or some other mechanism, “something” needs to be put in place- and not only that, if a government guarantee came in, it could be on the basis of lower rents- landlord then makes normal profit not super normal profit but risks are greatly reduced as a result. Government are just not creative enough



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Upper rank of Garda? Your basic sergeant?

    Well, expose your ignorance here.

    Garda rank structure in descending order:

    • Commissioner
    • Deputy Commissioner
    • Assistant Commissioner
    • Chief Superintendent
    • Superintendent
    • Inspector
    • Sergeant
    • Garda
    • Reserve Garda




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  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    I think one of the problems with Irish society is that we defend to the death something that is done wrong here simply on the basis that that is how things have been done. Some of it is to protect vested interests, but often it is just that the way of doing things becomes ingrained (the "new normal") and we don't want to change. If you point out where things are working in other countries a whole load of largely spurious excuses are made as to why it can't be done here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So what we have are over 5,000 properties coming on the market for families to buy. That is a good thing in the longer term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    1,500 properties with eviction orders in the second half of 2022 because of tenant breach of obligations. Given that the ban didn't apply to rent delinquency, this covers situations where the tenant is wrecking the place, anti-social to other tenants or neighbours, breaching management company rules, etc. No wonder landlords are leaving the market if this is permitted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,414 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    You entirely missed the context. I said it was pathetic to blame SF housing objections for the housing disaster in Ireland. The factcheck article showed it to be misinformation. I never referenced the tweet as an excuse, pathetic or otherwise.

    The rest of your post is quite the exaggeration and I am not going to lower myself anymore talking about a stupid tweet. I am not on Twitter and I don't like seeing tweets as headline news on our national news program. It's Donald Trump style discourse which is a race to the bottom. We are already dumbing down Irish politics to silly levels already. Stormy Daniels will be blamed next for our housing disgrace.

    FFG are in power. They are the only ones with the levers to fix the housing disaster. Yet it's getting worse year by year.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,845 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I think that the ban did not cover any tenant in breach of their obligations. You can find those obligations under the RTA



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    Rent vs buy calculations are very hard to compare, there are so many inputs you have to make assumptions on in terms of interest rates rental yields etc.

    If rents were cheaper than mortgage for comparison you could stick twice the difference pre-tax here into a pension fund for decades and have a bigger pot to pay that rent in retirement. But I don't think anything would work out well in terms of renting in retirement at the rental levels we have here and dropping rents isn't really an option when we need investment to build units and build costs are so high. All of these things will probably change of course over time and unpredictably. I'm guessing in Germany the retirees arent paying the rents we have here, they have some stable affordable rent and pension is designed to cover that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,467 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Peter McVerry wants taxes for landlords slashed.

    A funny outcome of this mess is the do gooders looking for tax reductions for landlords.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    You would be better off getting the full spectrum of why things arent working in Ireland and open up peoples eyes to what the problems actually are.

    Then people would understand not just one of the straws that are breaking the camels back, but all of them. Only after that can you look for solutions.

    If people dont want to look at the real picture in full, then they arent going to be solving anything, ever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    AGSI represent mid-rank Gardai (note you conveniently leave out inspectors) Upper relative to beat cops and that's quite clear from my post.

    Another crap gotcha to file alongside the others. And you had to sleep on it and all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    The devil is in the detail- championing just one option won’t solve this mess- tax reductions yes, state guarantee scheme for wrecked properties by tenants, yes BUT with lower rents charged- you can’t give it all to the landlords - there has to be conditions attached such as better standards of rental properties etc



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,845 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Cutting tax on rental income will only increase the prices of houses. The people who can't manage the business still won't be able to manage. It will just mean that they will get more for their properties when they sell them. It won't stop them selling. It might actually encourage more to do so.


    IF the government wanted to slow down the rate of evictions due to sales then it can up Stamp Duty and Capital Gains Tax. The former would have a moderate depressing effect on prices whereas the latter would both make it less attractive to cash in right now, as well as giving the State a greater share of the artificially inflated current price for those that still want to cash in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,845 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You could not have such a state guarantee scheme. It would introduce a massive moral hazard into the system.

    If you want a risk free investment, then you only get a risk free return.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,845 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    It is because it will not achieve what it ostensibly claims to achieve. It may accelerate sales.



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    No the state should not be paying for wrecked properties. That will just increase the amount of tenants who wreck properties as they know someone else will pay for it. People with no respect should be made pay for it.

    First off for the county councils they should be allowed deduct rent at source to stop the massive arrears building up any futher. 105 million is a disgrace and its only going on direction

    In terms of LL they need a swift way to remove tenants plus a system which tenants have to be registered and if they make a mess of one property a LL can check and not allow them into another.

    Plus if they wreck a property, they are made pay for the damage done. The debt will follow them till it is paid.

    Same system as tenants for LL and a lot better than the current RTB process which is a joke. If LL want a proper system for tenants they need to abide by a proper system. Im sure some people will try to work outside this system but you can't stop everyone, the majority will

    In terms of tax, the large rental companies get tax breaks so provide similar to the small LL.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Like I said above - normal rent, not super normal rent



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    It's funny because it is ingrained in your average joe here that it is a zero sum gain, landlords benefiting is bad for tenants and vice versa.

    It's roadrunner Vs. Wile Coyote.

    Whereas the reality is that landlords benefiting is good for tenants at the moment because the market needs more landlords and the long running trend is we have less and less of them as evidenced by the number of registered tenancies at the RTB dropping year on year for the last 6 years and the complete lack of a functioning rental market (all due to landlords 'cashing in' at the 'peak', turning their backs on 'outrageous profits' to stick their cash on deposit at minus 7% real return).



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,211 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    The gardai or anyone else for that matter don't need to have a coup to prevent Paul Murphy or RBB from gaining power. One look at those so called left politicians , privately educated, multiple pension drawing anti establishment (not including pension fund managers of course) and anyone with a smidgeon of brain power would vote to keep them well away from government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,845 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Normal rental yield is not a risk free return.

    For example, if you have 80k to put as a deposit on a house, and you instead decide to park it at 4% interest, you would get 3,200 per year before tax. (That's even if you could get 4% which I don't think is available at the minute)

    If you borrow 320k to put with your 80k and buy a 400k house, then after paying the interest on your loan (not the capital repayments) would you be happy if you were left with 3,200 after other expenses and before tax?

    Or alternatively, with no mortgage you would get 16k interest per year before tax. Would you be happy with only 1,333 left of your rent after expenses (and before tax) if you bought a 400k house with cash? If we go to a more realistic 3% you are down to 1000 a month.

    The above example doesn't even consider the additional inflationary protection/leverage you get from buying the property. Over the long term, it is extremely highly probable that the nominal value of your investment will increase. Whereas your original 80k in the bank will just stay at 80k.


    And let me make the point a different way. If you have 80k to invest today, you put it with a 320k mortgage and buy a house, in 30 years your rental income will have paid for that house (plus more) and you will have a house. Do you think you could invest that 80k another way so that you'd be confident that the proceeds could buy that same house in 30 years?

    The issue is that single-property landlords cannot diversify away the risks you refer to from having a bad tenant. They larger ones can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,845 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You would think that. But the same logic would lead to the conclusion that they won't ever get elected themselves. But they do get elected. You can't trust people to vote sensibly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    The entire population could vote Paul Murphy in and he wouldn’t take up a role. It’s easier sitting down the back, not having to do anything and pop up every so often On tv to make sure people are aware he is still alive


    the Dail has a load of the same, spend 6 months doing nothing, pay for someone to write them a “heartfelt” speech. Share it around social media and then sit back for another 6 months

    getting a job with responsibility and having to make decisions would be their worse nightmare



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