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The eviction ban

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Its strange to see the outrage at the involvement of the Gardai in the eviction process. They are only there to keep the peace and are only involved because the tenant failed to comply with a court order. SF have a history of sensationalizing to get a response or media attention.

    I would like to see the state building and providing social housing for those in need. I think the current policy of spreading out social housing has failed, it is too expensive. We need to move towards low cost high density apartments for social housing that provide the absolute basics and nothing more. People with medical conditions and those who are working should get priority, with those who have never contributed to society staying at the back of the que. Criminal records for serious crimes should also remove your access to social housing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,211 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    True, I guess your namesake is testament to that!



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Well, looking at the data, let's just take Q4 2022.

    Of the 4,329 notices to quit, over 90% were because the landlord wishes to sell, a family member wishes to move in or because of tenant obligation failure. Now, I don't see why notices to quit should be prevented in those cases.

    By the way, the use of the word "eviction" rather than "notice to quit" is a typical pejorative use of language by the current opposition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The are 5 ranks above Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, two ranks below (if I generously include reserves). That isn't mid-rank, that is lower-rank.

    Caught out on your point, and you resort to an insult. Quelle surprise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,845 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Wanting to sell or give it to a family member most definitely don't have to be allowed as reasons to break a tenancy. I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't - just that there is no fundamental philosophical reason why that should be allowed. IT is only allowed as a sop to the individual landlords. With more professional landlords, it wouldn't have to be allowed. Those would have not issue buying and selling with tenants in-situ.

    Those reasons are not allowed with regular commercial leases for example. If I own a big warehouse and my tenant is a regular distribution company with 10 years left on the lease, I can't decide to evict them because Amazon decides to offer me a heap of money to buy my warehouse. I have to sell it with tenant in-situ. Nor could I break the lease and evict them because my relative would like to use the warehouse to set up a cross-fit gym etc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yes, but those commercial leases are limited, have break clauses, regular rent reviews, restoration costs falling on the lesse etc. but tenancies do not.

    If we were to mirror the terms of commercial leases for tenancies, there would be outrage from the mob.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Normal rent yield with state supports or guarantees in place is- you’re quoting only part of what I’ve discussed in the last few pages - and besides, stocks and shares has long been proved to out perform property - it’s time not timing . If I had only 80k I’d never consider buying property with it coupled with a mortgage- I’d invest in stocks and shares.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,524 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Donald Trump threadbanned



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Lol. Inspectors and Sergeant are the definition of mid-ranking and the AGSI pitch themselves as a mid-rank org.

    3 of those 5 ranks you mention consist of no more than a dozen people altogether.

    Mind you don't harm yourself dancing on that pin. You weren't insulted btw, no need to be so precious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,231 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Not necessarily. landlords benefiting means higher rents. That's not good for tenants. There needs to be a balance struck.

    Most european countries have a balance on this. Tenants get strong rights. Landlords get to evict people who don't pay. Property is seen as a long term investment, not something that is used for fast profit.

    Property as an investment, especially residential property, needs to be seen as a long term thing. It should be regulated so it becomes something that gives gains over a long time. People used to do this. They'd buy a house to rent knowing that in 20 or 30 years they'd be mortgage free and own a property. Now there's too many landlords, including institutional ones, who see it as something that they should make money out of now. Property was an investment that matured. You might even need to invest more of your own money into it. Now people expect to be able to make a profit every month.

    One of the guys from the landlords representation group (I can't remember what it's called) was complaining in the Irish Times that there are landlords who can't increase the rent too much when newer apartments that went for rent in the neighborhood were renting for more. He said that landlords should be able to increase rents automatically to whatever the highest in the neighborhood is.

    And people here have said that it's not possible to have a long term outlook because landlords would leave the market. Here's the thing about that, there's landlords in other countries that treat property as a long term investment. I'm in Germany. I rent from a private landlord. And here it's cheaper to rent than to buy. There's still plenty of people with a second property that see it as an investment.

    (Edited to add clarity)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I think the big issue with it the old Thatcher phrase - the trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

    Essentially, that is what is happening with the Irish property rental market. Tenants are refusing to pay rent, tenants are wrecking properties, rent controls are in place, eviction bans are in place. Eventually, those with the money to pay for this largesse - landlords - disappear, mainly because they don't have the money to pay for this anymore. That leads to calls from McVerry to reduce tax for landlords. But if you reduce tax for landlords, who will pay for all the tenant subsidies?? He also wants tax breaks for tenants as well. Nobody left to pay for the free houses, it seems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Anything else different in Germany to Ireland when it comes to renting? Quite a lot if its the same as it was when i lived there a fair few years ago now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Utterly crass blanch.

    Deliquent tenants are an utterly marginal issue in this eviction crisis, were and are a minority in the rental sector.

    The vast vast majority of people being dropkicked onto the streets are working tenants that pay their way in life. They staff your supermarkets, they teach your children, they are the they pay their taxes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,231 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Most apartments are unfurnished. about 80% come without a kitchen which is really weird. You bring your own or buy from the previous tenant. I got an apartment with a kitchen. Came with all the white goods except a washing machine.

    It's fecking huge. Nearly 100m2 apartment. 10 mins walk from the centre of a biggish city. Costs slightly more than I was paying for a small one bed in Kildare.

    I had to go through a credit check before I signed the lease. I also had to pay 3 months rent in advance. But my heating, water etc is included in my bills. (For those that don't know about rents in germany, landlords offer both hot and cold rents. Hot includes everything except electricity and internet although sometimes they will be included. Cold rent is the equivalent of what we pay in ireland)

    I also have to repaint the entire apartment when I move out.

    But I've been here 18 months. No rent increases. And when it is increased it'll be only a small amount. Whenever I've had issues the landlord has sent someone around instantly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    The way delinquent tenants are dealt with and what they can get away with, therefore the risk they bring into the whole risk/reward factor is absolutely, positively, wthout a shred of a doubt, a major factor in the current crisis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,231 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    The vast majority of notices to quit weren't because of non payment. they were no fault evictions. So those landlords had paying tenants. Those landlords were selling up. If they feared that at some point in the future they might get non paying tenants, then they could have sold up when the current tenants moved out. But they were in no danger right now. There was no risk right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,669 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Mostly in Europe you have institutional LL's. In German Berlin I. Particular most rental properties were build after the war by either the Marshall plan, virtual slave labour by the communist activity.

    Paris was actually rebuild in the 1850/60's in a plan by Napoleon lll. Neither the UK or Ireland benefited from the Marshall plan.

    Now there are many different types of LL in Ireland. Many would be willing to rent long-term. However the system is not set up that way. All LL's are railroaded into the one system. This has actually not deterred people from renting properties short-term. All lease's now after 6 months are regarded as a tenancy of unlimited duration. That has probably take 50k units off the market that will neither be sold or rented. Neither will they be considered subject to a vacancy as the owners are either in a nursing home, temporary abroad, minding an elderly relative or it may be the only other property that they own other than there PPR which any vacancy tax will be hard to apply to.

    I would have two properties and would be quite willing (as would most small LL enter into a long-term tenancy 15-20 years) as long as there was equality in the system

    I need a decent deposit, I do not mind if it's held in escrow. As a LL when I register with the RTB I have to give all my details and PPS number, there is no such onus as tenants. They are not required to register there part of the tenancy. The problem with a tenancy Ireland is you have no clue as to who your tenant are often. You are dependent on trying to access as much as possible the risk involved. References from other LL are not woria hat of crap as any LL will do anything to get rid of Sh!tty tenant.

    Long term tenancies also require a commitment from tenants which is LONG-TERM, however most do not want that commitment. So we have the situation where all the risk is lofted on to the LL.

    At present a substantial portion of small LL are scared shirtless of the system. They are sprinting for the hills. We have a media that is only concerned with one side of the story and half the political system trying to make it worse. We have a charity industry that for the last ten years looked to put an unbalanced system.in place with no commitments demanded of tenants. It's a crap system and the hens are coming home to roost.

    Add to that we have a few poster on here posting waffle and BS solutions that will scare any LL who gets a property vacant and now will not relet, similar to what the opposition are on about as well as they try to outbid each other in making proposing that seem to be tenant friendly but will only speed up the exit.

    If the government bring in LL tax relief will I take it ya bit it's not the solution and crap proposals to bring term and conditions on a LL but not putting any commitment from a tenant ilwill.once again provide. solution. Neither will expecting long-term commitment's bring the 50-60k short term units ( units that would be available sub five years) into the market

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Its all related. Cause and effect. To not look at the big picture of why landlords want out is to continue the same path that has lead us here. And people wonder why im so sure things are just going to get worse :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,669 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Most tenants would probably be in a property 3-5+ years many longer. Once again last year the regulations changed. A real nast one was that no LL in an RPZ could rise the rent by more than inflation or 2% which ever was the lesser. Great one for tenants. Many landlords did not increase rents during tenancies. Many LL.had long term tenancies often of 5+years ( I have even heard of cases where rent were not raised 10+ years. Many of these were suddenly caught by the COVID morotorium and then the new rental rule.

    The cause and effect comes into play. They suddenly were looking at maybe 5-10% max increase when present tenants exited where they were already substantially below market rates. They decided f@@k this I am off the market is decent to sell a house I will pay the CGT and the fees and walk away.

    WTF if you were in the same situation would you not do the same

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,414 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Are these notices to quit in any way binding? I mean could a landlord indicate that they plan to sell and then just bring in new tenants on higher rent?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    False. Both Ireland and the UK received Marshall Plan aid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    "Not necessarily. landlords benefiting means higher rents."

    No it doesn't, you're back to a zero sum game thinking again. Tax relief benefits landlords doesn't cost tenants anything. Regulatory certainty benefits landlords and tenants, i.e. not hyperactively changing regulations every 6 months to win votes, that just causes massive uncertainty over whats coming next and landlords get out, less supply for tenants and higher prices. Just set regulations right and do it once, what kind of a bunch of gobshites have to keep changing the rules as they go along, it's the definition of incompetence.

    Speedy evictions benefit both because alternative is that tenants ultimately will end up with less rentals available when small landlords sell up because the financial risk of having a buy to let mortgage while getting no rental income for two years is too high = less supply for tenants and higher prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    No. I had to give a notice to tenants in my apartment a couple of years ago. You need to do it in writing and the notice needs to be signed by a commissioner for oaths or solicitor. If the notice is issues you have a couple of months to put it on the market, if you change your mind the previous tenant gets first refusal on whether they want to move back in or not at the same rent it was previously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    Yes and the other factor is that they can get out now and sell their property at market rate.

    That probably won't be the case in a year or two with tenant first refusal, tenant remaining in situe on sale etc.

    Then the RPZ impact on the resale value could be huge, if you are at half market rent in an RPZ and have to sell to a landlord with tenant in situe they will value the RPZ property at half the value of one that is rented at market rate. Half of your investment wiped out.

    I doubt the tenant in situe stuff will come in but you'd have to give it significant weight in any decision to stay in.

    I honestly don't think many are deciding to stay in, mostly people with no mortgage and outside RPZs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,414 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Fr Peter McVerry has achieved more in his life and helped more people than you ever will sunshine. Have some respect.

    Did you cheer when the do gooder was attacked last year in his home?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    McVerry, the biggest crook going. Creaming millions of DCC to take the absolute dregs off their hands, while his 'charity' are outbidding people for homes and apartments all over the city to house them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    I reckon the man has played a massive part in why people cant get anywhere to rent these days and also why house prices and rents are now so high.

    He may have helped some people on the way but he has hurt many multiples more and they will be hurting for a long, long time still to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Leo is at it too. You would want to be very mentally challenged at this point to be a landlord.



  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Do you have any evidence that he personally profits from any of that? For me the problem with what he said - give tax breaks to landlords - is that it doesn't address the underlying problems and, in fact, perpetuates them.



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