General Irish politics discussion thread

It is down to the choice between a party that is very unlikley to achieve its housing promises, and a pair of partites that have proven themselves to have no genuine interest into even starting to address the problem.

But is a party that advances policies that are unlikely to succeed truly displaying intent, or merely displaying the desire to appear to have an intent which, in fact, they may not have?

After all, if a partly truly intends to achieve X, wouldn't you expect it to advance policies likely to achieve X?

I guess my question is, do you have to wait for that? If a party is advancing a policy that ostensibly addresses an issue that the public is concerned about, but that when you think about it is very unlikely to address that issue effectively, I don't think you have to wait for the policy to fail before you draw conclusions that might affect how you vote. Either the party is cynically advancing the policy in an attempt to attract the votes of people concerned about the issue but it has no intention of doing anything effective about the issue, or it has stupidly failed to recognise what is obvious to you — that the policy will be ineffective.

I should add that I'm not talking about SF housing policy in particular here; just making the point in general. But if housing is something you're particularly concerned about, then your expectation of SF or any other party should not simply be that they will have a housing policy, but that they will have a housing policy that is likely to be effective.

I intend to win the Euromillions.

Probably have a better chance of that than Sinn Fein being a success in government.

Intent is nothing.

We 'intend' to win the Euromillions, but we forgot to spend the money on a ticket.

Seems to me to be more like the FG system.

The membership can be ignored and the leader is elected by powers assumed by a central committe.

P.S. If members of FG are happy with this system then so be it. I'm not a member of FG so it has no real effect on me, just don't tell me it is democratic in a membership context.

A point I make myself — if you think SF policy is likely to be effective and beneficial, of course you'll vote for SF.

But when Pommiebast put that position, you didn't respond with any expression of confidence in the effectiveness of SF policy; you said it was SF's intent that mattered. And that's the point I was picking up on.

Election of leaders in FG is a lot more democratic than in SF anyway. Has SF not had only 2 leaders in 40 years, the last one appointed unopposed behind closed doors in Belfast? I shudder to think what other decision about women like Jean McConville were made behind closed doors in Belfast. Democratic? No, I do not think so.

In other news / Irish politics, seeing as we had three Russian cable maintenance type vessels operating suspiciously off our west coast near the new subsea communication cables, which connect western Europe to North America, I wonder have we rounded up enough sailors to launch a single naval vessel of our own to monitor them or deter them yet? As of a few days ago, not one can be launched. We do not have enough sailors to crew one single ship and put it to sea when needed. They are all ashore, even though our navy costs us a fortune annually. As an island nation, that is really superb. Not.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41109211.html

Bit of an embarassment to the EU that we cannot even launch a ship to monitor suspicous activity off our own coast, especially with the leader of the free world coming here shortly. We are the weak link here in the west. Whats the bets communications between the 2 continents may be disrupted in a week or two? Its not as if Russia and the US are not at loggerheads over Ukraine, to put it mildly, and there was another underwater incident closer to Ukraine not too long ago.

And the importance of the cable the Russians were over? Someone else summarised it well: "Beyond the basic necessity of statehood, a lot of Ireland's economy relies on those transatlantic data cables, which don't just run through the Irish EEZ, but actually connect to Ireland's own communication cable network. Much of our GDP is generated by US companies, both in the tech and other sectors, and the massive loss of data connectivity that would happen if those cables were damaged would have serious effects on the Irish economy. And even if we were to divest ourselves from these multinationals, the extent to which our daily lives depend on a secure data connection would still leave us desperately vulnerable. The same loss of connectivity that would hit Ireland in case of an attack would also affect continental Europe, as a lot of their data traffic takes the same route. And the antennas at Ireland's National Space Centre in Midleton, together with the satellites they link to, simply don't offer enough bandwidth to compensate for the loss of the cables. 

Russia, and before it the USSR, has demonstrated their proficiency with deep submergence underwater operations in the past. They're easily capable of getting divers down to those communications cables in order to cut them, either from surface ships, or from "special projects" submariners, such as BS-136 "Orenburg" or K-329 "Belgorod"., so it's not as if the threat to these cables is purely theoretical. They are very much a valid, and vulnerable, target. More in general though, Ireland as a whole is a weak spot in NATO's defense, one that can be easily exploited and that is currently unable to defend itself, should someone be looking to exploit that weak spot."

Only 2 leaders in 40 years. "Ms McDonald was confirmed as the sole nominee for the position following a party meeting in Belfast"

What do you think of the Russians hovering over the subsea cables off our west coast? I know SF are very slow if ever to criticise the Russians, so just curious. Do you think our navy should have put a ship to sea to investigate them - they say they had not enough sailors to man a ship and a defence person said everyone from the Kremlin to the Kinahins are laughing at them. If SF were in power, do you think would we congratulate the Russians on helping come to fight the imperialist powers of capitalist UK and US, or what?

So 40 years with just 2 leaders appointed unopposed in secret is ok then.

As regards the Russians, who I do not recall you or your comrades ever condemning even when they invaded Ukraine, sure they are a grand bunch of lads ? Nice socialist folk like ourselves?

However, do you understand what the Russian cable maintenance ships were doing loitering over the sub sea cables? Do you understand, as explained before, a lot of Ireland's economy relies on those transatlantic data cables, which don't just run through the Irish EEZ, but actually connect to Ireland's own communication cable network. Much of our GDP is generated by US companies, both in the tech and other sectors, and the massive loss of data connectivity that would happen if those cables were damaged would have serious effects on the Irish economy. And even if we were to divest ourselves from these multinationals, the extent to which our daily lives depend on a secure data connection would still leave us desperately vulnerable. The same loss of connectivity that would hit Ireland in case of an attack would also affect continental Europe, as a lot of their data traffic takes the same route.

They may be grand socialist folk like yourself, and anti-imperialist all the better like your good self, and sure we sent up a little plane to wave at them from the air ( I wonder did they wave back or is it true they all done moonies at us?), but you do not think their subs or divers would have any interest ever in interfering with the sub sea cables? Not even when Biden visits?

Seems to be a bit of secrecy in how SF leaders "emerge" and how only 2 have "emerged" in the past 40 years. The last one announced after a meeting in Belfast, no minutes of the meeting or anything. If you think that is as usual or as transparent as other political parties in these islands, then that is what you think.

I said "as regards the Russians, who I do not recall you or your comrades ever condemning even when they invaded Ukraine, sure they are a grand bunch of lads ? Nice socialist folk like ourselves?"

"However, do you understand what the Russian cable maintenance ships were doing loitering over the sub sea cables? Do you understand, as explained before, a lot of Ireland's economy relies on those transatlantic data cables, which don't just run through the Irish EEZ, but actually connect to Ireland's own communication cable network. Much of our GDP is generated by US companies, both in the tech and other sectors, and the massive loss of data connectivity that would happen if those cables were damaged would have serious effects on the Irish economy. And even if we were to divest ourselves from these multinationals, the extent to which our daily lives depend on a secure data connection would still leave us desperately vulnerable. The same loss of connectivity that would hit Ireland in case of an attack would also affect continental Europe, as a lot of their data traffic takes the same route.

They may be grand socialist folk like yourself, and anti-imperialist all the better like your good self, and sure we sent up a little plane to wave at them from the air ( I wonder did they wave back or is it true they all done moonies at us?), but you do not think their subs or divers would have any interest ever in interfering with the sub sea cables? Not even when Biden visits?"

My point was ""Ms McDonald was confirmed as the sole nominee for the position following a party meeting in Belfast" and I gave you the link.

How come only 2 leaders have "emerged" in the past 40 years. The last one after a meeting in Belfast, no minutes of the meeting or anything. If you think that is as usual or as transparent as other political parties in these islands, then that is what you think.

Varadkar mentioned factors that make it more difficult to build new dwellings, i.e. rising cost of materials, labour shortage. Covid and the war in Ukraine have played a part.

I'll leave you to the slanting.

If you find some back-up, get back to us.