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Why have we so many housing "charity" quangos?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Another charity related scam is so called 'Sponsored Walks' abroad. Like walk in Machu Picchu (South America) The Holy Land, Kilimanjaro in Africa or some such far flung place. It's basically a free 2 week holiday + all expenses paid trip for a group of free loaders paid for by the rest of us who buy raffle tickets, attend table quizzes etc. (I no longer financially support these scams) As I suggested recently to someone who was selling tickets @ €10 a pop, to walk in the Holy Land - why not climb up Croagh Patrick two or three time in the one day and forward all the money saved on travel, accommodation, food etc. to their charity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO


    There are 450 (yes, 450) Approved Housing Bodies in Ireland.

    The six biggest have assets of €2.8 billion

    Clúid, Respond, Tuath, Oaklee Housing, Circle Voluntary Housing Association and Co-operative Housing Ireland all do pretty much exactly the same thing, but all have a CEO, offices, development managers, CFO's etc, etc, etc.

    Why? Ignoring the other 444, why have we six huge "charities" all doing exactly the same thing, wasting millions of euros on duplicate staff, offices etc? Worse still, they are all competing with each other for the same sites.

    What is the purpose of all this duplication?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Let me rephrase that I never give to a charity that's doing work a government should be doing

    I donate €30 p/m to dogs trust because I genuinely believe it's being run by people with the sole goal of looking after animals.

    I do not donate to Concern, Troacaire, Goal, Simon, Cabhru, Rehab, etc, etc. As what they do it something that should be carried out by government. And we've seen time and time again that there is nearly always some CEO creaming off the top. Just google "charity scandal Ireland" and I'm sure you'll find them there.

    If a charity turns to government looking for funding to house people, they should surrender those properties/portfolio of tenants to the government. If they GENUINELY cared about housing them, this would not be problem.

    You don't know me. I have seen the corruption within charities first hand. It doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO


    At least you're admitting that yours weren't 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭minimary


    It benefits the Government to outsource it to charities because they have none of the liabilities for the properties, people don't have a right to buy if they're renting from charity rather than the State.

    Also I would reckon people are less likely to sue a charity and even if they sue, they're less likely to have their costs waived if they do (unlike suing the State) so firms are less likely to take them on 'no win no fee'.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    is that a thing these days? i don't recall seeing any of those in a long while.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i know someone who worked for a charity (again, providing a service the government should have been providing) and when the **** hit the fan about 15 years ago, their government grant went from (IIRC) nearly half a million to about 50k. that's one reason why they leave this work to charities - if it had been a team in the HSE (which it should have been), the government wouldn't have been able to cut the cord like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Ah Renko you know those are tendered for. But I do agree there is huge money wasted on those consultancy firms.

    Which charity do you work for that you're worried about losing your job if charities were told to become financially efficient?

    Mergers and Acquisitions happen all of the time in business, often with a goal of reducing overheads and and increasing efficiencies. So why shouldn't this happen in charities where there are significant overlaps?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    F u c h me that’s staggering.

    All that money, all that staff barely any problems solved.

    would I be correct in saying over 400 organisations have little interest in solving this problem & putting themselves out of work?



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO


    Apparently that's DEFINITELY not the case 😉



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    surprised I haven’t been labelled a conspiracy theorist yet



  • Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭Dr Karl


    If you want to be rich set up a religion or a charity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Saint mcverry was a worried man during covid. homeless numbers were way down as there was no flights into the country- his industry was in decline.

    We are back to normal with travel n now at record levels of homelessness. Any extra funding required as a result Peter?- how much would you like Peter!



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,573 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    That's pretty much exactly how the HSE is run.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    No no its the charities fault they are doing government bodies work.

    We couldn't possibly blame successive fianna fail and fianna gael governments for the state of the country. It must be someone else's fault rather than the people of Ireland for electing successive governments that make the choices that have led here.

    So its probably the charities and the immigrants fault.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,217 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Sure you're no-one in South Dublin unless you're on the board of at least one charity...

    I'd agree that most of these charities mean well, were started with the best of intentions and are simply trying to provide services that the state has failed to for decades. However, the duplication of effort and personalities (i.e. vested interests) involved mean they're preposterously inefficient.

    There's a great role for the Charities Regulator here imo:

    Existing charities should be incentivised to merge (perhaps via some kind of competitive process where the best performing charity in a particular area e.g. social housing, poverty alleviation, cancer care or mental health services etc. gets 100% of government funding for that area of work for the year - effectively forcing the others to either merge into that best run charity or go to the wall) and no new charity numbers should be issued if an existing charity already covers the aims of that charity or it's within their skillset/domain of expertise to take on the task.

    I can't see this ever happening - too many politicians wives and broadcasters boyfriends make a lucrative living out of our charity / NGO sector for it to ever gain enough media or political attention for them to do be forced to do the right thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    That ain’t really Peter’s fault though, everybody would do exactly the same thing.

    The buck stops with the people we elect, there advisor’s & public servant’s who do absolutely nothing only outsource their problem’s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,450 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    BTW, Alone and Age Action don’t do ‘exactly the same thing’. They each provide unique services that the other doesn’t provide, though there may indeed be some degree of overlap.

    Some degree of overlap...


    Overlap? Sure they are barely touching.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,450 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    While looking at the financial records for those two charities it is noticeable how much smaller they are than the previously referred to "trust".

    €1.8-2.6million in the bank as opposed to €45m+

    I guess we don't care about the elderly as much as the addicts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭relevanc


    I spent a few years (10-15 years ago) doing grant audits of large numbers of domestically funded and EU funded NGO’s.

    As a direct result of this I will never ever ever give one cent to these organisations.

    What the financial accounts don’t show is the line item breakdown of costs, as they are just categorised under ‘travel, admin, staff costs’ etc.

    The over spends on travel for (un)necessary high end travel is honestly shocking. The staffing ratios, salaries and work culture is equally shocking. The claimable staff expenses, per diems and external consultants costs are shocking.

    They are a gravy train and very little of the very generous budget/grant are actually available to the end cause.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    There would be more in the bank for the elderly if 2 charities doing the same work weren't renting 2 offices, paying 2 CEOs, paying 2 marketing budgets, paying 2 finance departments, paying 2 fundraising managers, and so on.

    It's a serious waste of money, which is either donated or provided by government. Easily fixed, but no appetite to do so from within the charities as that would be akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Age Action is heavily involved in advocacy and support for elderly and does not provide accommodation.

    Alone will provide accommodation working in conjunction with local authorities, social housing for senior citizens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Augme



    Why do we have Lidl, aldi, tesco, supervalu and dunnes all doing the same thing and aren't they all merged into one?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Because a monopoly in business such as supermarket means there is no competition and prices would shoot up.

    Competition isn't required in charity, just a good service for those that the charity was created to support. The service is diluted when funds are spent inefficiently on duplication such as office rent, salaries and other administrative expenses, which could easily be removed by merging charities that provide very similar services / supports.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    You don't think it's possible for one charity for the elderly to provide advocacy, support and accommodation all from under one office roof?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Augme



    Why competition not required in a charity? If you are the one designated charity to provide a service where is the free market incentive to ensure value for money and that the charity is providing the best service possible for the best value for money possible?


    Also, why would prices for the service a charity provides not shoot up if they were designated at the only ones allowed to provide it? Seems to be that they could very easily price gouge in that situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    What charities charge for the services they provide? That's not very charitable.

    A price gouging charity, I'm rolling around laughing here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,450 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    It hilarious how often people let slip that they think charities are the same as businesses, and yet if you ever dare point out the "business" of homelessness you will get jumped on by the mob.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Augme



    How do you think homeless charities own houses? They bought them with monopoly money? Rolling around laughing is right. 😂



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Loads of them , from the nominal charges in the various community cafes up the charges on top of rent in some of the housing associations, I think there is an NGO providing education in Dublin that will charge for some of its course depending on your means.



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