Is it time to join Nato

They want into NATO because they believe they need it to ensure their defence.

If you have the ability to unilaterally defeat your biggest military neighbour and the only one which is likely to attack you as it is being aggressive to its neighbours, it isn’t necessary to join a military alliance. You might choose to do so but there would be no real need to do so.

No one is suggesting Finland is joining NATO because it believes it can unilaterally defeat Russia in a conflict yet wants to join so it can offer protection to the other (weaker) NATO countries.

I know/you know we are moving to or already in a "multipolar" world. It was your contentions that it is going to be better (an improvement over a US led post WW2 or post Cold war order - you definitely do think that) and your positivity about it all with which I disagreed (+ mocked).

Yes I am "trolling" you as I can't help it. I wonder what kind of individual could look at what is going on in Ukraine as evidence for an improved world that is on the way purely because of their ideology/politics.

On your other points, NATO does not seem to be a dead duck quite yet (maybe Russia thought it was perhaps but misjudged a bit). It's kind of busy at the moment, countries even looking to join it again!

Reckless sanctioning of poor Russia, don't you contradict yourself? Part of this "multipolar" world is going to be opposed poles in conflict (starting wars, invading neighbours to expand a sphere of influence would be a clear sign of this). They are going to disconnect their dependencies on each other and try to use what leverage they can against each other.

With blocs there will be no "global currency", not even a kind of ad hoc or de facto one. The Western sanctions on Russia are part of that process IMO, I'd expect alot more of it to come. I'll leave the "petro dollar" to you if economics professor is another hat you wear.

Finlands joining nato has no relation to EU defense. Finland was always in a catch 22 with Russia whereby Russia kicking off would lead to Finland joining nato, or inversely where Finland joining nato would cause Russia to kick off.

Also worth mentioning that one of natos founding members (Denmark) recently joined EU common defense, which by the same logic would suggest that they dont put much trust in nato. (Perhaps the whole America first thing is a reason for that).

Finland was brought up in the first place because you said "There is probably no other country in Europe that could have put up such a resistance".

This is proven wrong by a few countries. I chose Finland, since resisting Russia is pretty much part of the culture. Building codes dictate that buildings over a given size be able to double as bunkers, the reserve force is huge and active, the Finnish military does nothing but prepare for a Russian attack, and the terrain is the worst conceivable nightmare for invasion.

Somewhat similar stories for Switzerland and Austria. Greece too. Dont have the time, but yeah .... nope.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/22/how-finland-bunker-mania-made-sense

Would it be possible for the Russians to hit the Republic with a nuke without affecting NI (=UK/NATO)?

like in the past , the UK will patrol our outer waters if needed , british navy are already busy with this type of carry on around us and europe, and you can be sure uncle sam is lukring underneath. UK royal airforce have been busy buzzing off the russians in the air too quite reguarly when they brush british airspace or close to ours. And im sure if Ireland was under a credible threat, there would be intervention from elsewhere like UK, US etc.

Myself, ive no fkcuing idea what good nato serve, but their tag line is: " NATO's fundamental goal is to safeguard the Allies' freedom and security by political and military means " - kinda means they can go in and do what they want, no?

And today i see nato are now urging Sweden to join nato asap - can you see the pattern here, anyone ? they could get finland and Sweden in one swoop to join up this military band of brothers.

maybe we do need WW3 , it'll be like a giant reset and we deserve it ?

histoty is history, but you only have to look at the absolute havoc, misery, and millions of ppl killed , be it terrorism, war etc, since the invading of iraq back in 2002 until present time, its all related - there is no superlative good enough to express what a sh!t show its been since then globally.

Basing our policies on the views of conservative Islamic circles seems like an outsourcing of sovereignty to them. It isn’t as if most of the countries you mention even pretend to try and adhere to human rights.

@Banzai600 And today i see nato are now urging Sweden to join nato asap - can you see the pattern here, anyone ? they could get finland and Sweden in one swoop to join up this military band of brothers..

Nato aren't urging Sweden to join asap Sweden already have applied for Nato membership and it's currently been held up by Turkey and Hungary for political gain ,

Aside from the fact there are plenty of alternative broadcasting methods so it would be practically impossible for them to stop pictures being broadcast, if the Russians decide to cut major communication lines between Europe and the USA then the last thing on American minds will be "well this is embarrassing for Ireland". It's also incredibly self important for Irish people to think the Russians would purposely time such an attack to occur when the President is visiting Ireland for maximum damage, rather than when he's visiting a major ally like the UK, Germany or France, or an eastern European nation of strategic importance to Russia.

America doesn't need or expect a country that's smaller than many American cities to defend its interests. If they genuinely think that Russian vessels are a real and credible threat they will handle it themselves regardless of if it happens to be in Irish waters and Ireland isn't going to deny them permission, just like Canada allowed them to send jets to intercept a believed Chinese balloon in Canadian airspace - despite being a nato member Canada itself did nothing and there was no backlash that it didn't either.

Those just sound like a random list of disparate factors to provide a “semi-excuse” for just sticking our heads in the sand and ignoring the issue - and it’s a foolish policy because this will come up at EU level in the (short term) years to come and we really do need to have some sort of coherent thought through view when that arises.

Lol. No.

Russias ability to cut cables anywhere in the Atlantic say experts.

Much safer in the mid Atlantic, plus much more menacing on the world stage.

Using terms of abuse like that and refusing to even have the conversation, kinda loses you the argument, no matter what you believe.

Happy to have the conversation. That little jest was aimed at no one individual in particular.

Also I cant lose the argumemt, there is no argument.