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The eviction ban

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,374 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    In fairness, I never had a bad experience - it was more a PITA at changeovers because I would never trust an agency to do the lettings, I always did them myself, and there was a lot of legwork involved in that. But I like to think it was as a result of that that I never had a bad tenant in the 20+ years I was renting. (Well, except one who failed to tell me she was pregnant, and then appeared to use the apartment as a sauna/steamroom for the next two years, you can guess the result of that!).

    I would have carried on, though, no problem - except the fear and risk of a rogue tenant, and the implications of that, were just too much at this stage.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I had 2 rogue tenants who caused me no end of expense, hassle and stress. I have posted about them before and would just put me in a bad mood to post about them again. Outside of the 2 bad ones I had 1 "good" tenant move out leaving the house filthy. Another "good" tenant walked away 2 months before he was meant to in the middle of covid left me with an empty house that I couldn't travel to that needed multiple repairs that he never told me about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    It's quite simple. If the original notice is defective in some way it is invalid. It is the same as if it was never served.

    There are straightforward requirements ( and even a helpful 'how to' guide ) any notice period can only start from when a valid notice is served.



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    You have forums full of convoluted reasons to reject the notice. So even if a LL does what they think is 100% right unless you have a solicitor review it at a cost you will find the tenant comes up with some reason to reject.

    The process of evicting a tenant is not as easy as just filling in a form and sending it off, no matter how valid the reason to evict is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    You can download a sample notice of termination from the RTB website:

    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/notices-of-termination/sample-notices-of-termination

    there's a sample notice for each of the valid reasons for terminating a tenancy - for both landlord and tenant.

    If it's too difficult for someone to download the appropriate notice and return form and tick the appropriate box then perhaps they are not suited to running any type of business.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Could I ask in hiindsight could you have done anything differently or would it still have worked out bad?



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    🤣

    Maybe and maybe not.

    My post was an explanation of what is going on and what LL have to deal with.

    Im not too worry about the insinuations



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Its not like the rules keep changing...oh wait this thread eviction ban...



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    The RTB is creating new definitions of what is 'defective'. In the meaning of the original lease and common understanding it is nearly impossible to 'serve notice in a defective way', once you give the correct amount of notice.

    If a notice is served and there is a typo, that is not defective by any reasonable persons understanding , notice was given and it was for the correct amount of time. That is simple.

    Parroting the red tape introduced to entrap landlords and prevent them exercising their property rights doesn't lend any credibility to the process.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    In the first instance I should have been harder and issued eviction notices earlier. Instead I fell for a sob story and promises.

    The other instance (it actually hit the rte news website) involved a death and a surviving spouse going through a downward spiral that affected the whole neighbourhood. I tried to do things right and paid dearly for it.

    I would need to have been an absolute heartless bastard to not suffer serious financial loss



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  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    How does the eviction ban work in other countries?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Wow- sounds like a lot was beyond your control - you’d nearly have needed fitness medical certs and psychiatric reports in advance to avoid such a scenario and even then



  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    Ah here don't be making suggestions like that, it's bad enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    The Uk eviction ban for example ended in May 2021…I expect Northern Ireland is included in that

    I guess all other countries had something similar for covid but long gone at this stage



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Refusing to leave someone’s property by hiding behind a technicality or a ‘gotcha’ is akin to squatting in my opinion. Only a complete scumbag would do it.

    And this ‘not suited to running any type of business’ snide remark shows the attitude people have to landlords. They have a house so they have a business no matter how much you hate them for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Far as I know Westport isn’t an RPZ, could be wrong on it though, I’ve found a fair few tourist towns aren’t in RPZ’s although weirdly the likes of Piltown in Kilkenny is



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,667 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    And the amazing thing is many of these people are running successful businesses outside of the rental sector or are in senior position in the public or private sector and they find dealing with the RTB onerous.

    While the RTB has not put up sample tenancy termination notices these were not always there. The well (those who are LL's) has been poisoned already and it is hard to clean up the mess

    On termination notices. As the RTB now receives a completed termination notice then it should be proactive in dealing with terminations. Most notices are nearly 6 months or more. Minimum is three months I think.

    When the receive the notice which will be within a few days if it being served they should write to the tenant and give them 30 days to state if the intend to appeal the notice. If the do a lot of the dealing with terminations could be dealth within the statutory notice period.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    How can it be entrapment if, as you say, it is nearly impossible to serve notice in a defective way?

    All a landlord has to do is fill in the blanks in the template provided on the RTB website.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,667 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Regulation and RTB always put the onus on the LL to not only do everything correctly but also out carry out extra action's.

    I give you an example. Previously if a LL terminated a tenancy where a tenant had a right of reletting ( eg refurbishment, sale or Family occupancy) the tenant had to send the details within 28 days of there termination ( technically they could hand it to him as they left the house) of where the LL could contact them in the case where the property became available in the statutory period.

    Now the onus is on the LL to get there details when this happens and try to get the details of where they are not living to offer them.the tenancy back 9+ months later.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I stand over my viewpoint. I don't hate landlords by any means.

    I've rented in several places in the past and always had a good relationship with my landlord. When I had to relocate for work reasons I made sure to follow the regulations, give the landlord the proper notice (and an informal heads up earlier when I knew), left their property in turn key state, ready for the next tenant and aways had my full deposit returned with little or no delay.

    If I had messed up and was held liable for additional months rent or lost some or all of my deposit because I hadn't given proper notice I'd take ownership for my own mistakes and I'd be annoyed with myself.

    The RTB website practically handholds a landlord (or tenant) through the process of serving a notice of termination.

    If a landlord (or tenant) can't follow the simple guidelines and fill in the blanks on one of the boilerplate templates given, then they need to take ownership for their own stupidity and accept the consequences.

    A tenant and landlord have entered into a profesional legal business relationship with eachother, expecting it to be managed in a professional, legal and business like manner isn't expecting too much.

    If a landlord can't do their job properly they can blame nobody but themselves.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    “A tenant and landlord have entered into a profesional legal business relationship with eachother, expecting it to be managed in a professional, legal and business like manner isn't expecting too much”

    Except that’s not what it is at all. The government say how much the landlord can charge, they don’t allow choice in refusal of tenants so force who they can rent to and then don’t allow landlords to leave the contract when it’s up.

    And on top of all that, if the tenant trashed the place or doesn’t pay the rent they protect the party who has broken the contract rather than the other way around.

    It’s nothing like real business agreements and anyone who thinks it is are the ones who shouldn’t be running a business. Its state supported robbery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,667 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Not only that nowadays in all busines, dealing businesses can engage a lot of there dealings online. Many government departments insist on it and penalise those engaging with them if they do not in some cases.

    However the RTB will not allow LL's to deal with tenants on email, they insist on snail mail. Dentists and doctors use text messages.

    Yet a LL cannot serve notices electronically via email or whatapp if they are dealing with a tenant this way. Even though there is a verifiable trail via this method

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Common theme seems to be drag out and delay the process.



  • Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭dontmindme


    However the RTB will not allow LL's to deal with tenants on email, they insist on snail mail. Dentists and doctors use text messages.

    On one side you're talking about the breaking of a legally binding lease agreement, and on the other side you're talking about not missing a doctor/dentist appointment...



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,667 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Incorrect. There is seldom a valid leases agreement in place. Mostly the tenancy is covered by government regulations. Remember every tenancy after six months is now considered to be a tenancy of unlimited duration so there is no such thing as a lease agreement covering the duration of the tenancy, it only now is valid to cover the terms and conditions of that lease.

    An email containing an original document is considered a valid legal document in many cases. My point about doctor's and dentist's dealing in texts is an example of the way the world has moved on.

    As an aside if a tenant is ending a tenancy and dose it via email or text to the LL is it valid or are they required to give it via snail mail

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Hysteria. Any time I've rented it has been completely up to the landlord to accept me or someone else as their tenant. Nobody has forced them to select a specific tenant.

    Your argument appears to be against any form of regulation. All businesses are subject to regulation.They set clear standards and expectations for all involved. If someone doesn't like it, then don't be in the business.

    It might surprise you that just over 40% of applications to the RTB for adjudication are made by landlords and by and large, when compared to the alternative of going through the courts, can cheaply and speedily resolve disputes between Landlord and Tenant, affording protections to both parties without having to resort to the courts.

    https://www.realestate.bnpparibas.ie/market-research-and-insights/experts-opinion/residential-tenancy-board-friend-or-foe

    "So is the RTB working as it should be? And the answer in the main is YES and on balance it is a friend rather than a foe."



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,667 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If a LL illegally terminates a tenancy will the RTB enforce there judgement

    If a tenant overhold will the RTB enforce there judgement

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    It may not be obvious to many but social housing and it's relative security of tenure is becoming a whole lot attractive than having to suffer and struggle with whatever the PRS throws at you. Hard to see anything but a further reduction in small one property type amateur landlords.

    Income levels for access to social housing will increase as well. Assuming the private renter is unable to move into ownership.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Problem with that is the majority of social housing is with those small landlords. That's whats leaving the market. The larger landlords have mostly stayed away from that end of the market.

    So your premise is relying on the govt to build and supply it. Which it won't.

    At the moment larger landlords can mitigate none income generating rentals, over holding, through economy of scale. Once more of that burden falls on them it will eventually become non viable.

    It's just as usual kicking the can just a bit further down the road.

    It might be more attractive to a renter. But who will supply it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You're comment just ignores so much legislation its ridiculous.

    They don't want to be the business. They are leaving hence the eviction ban.

    Not joining the dots.



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