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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I’d be very surprised if Casey wasn’t in the squad at this point.

    The 9 is so important in the way Ireland play it’s very hard to see someone like Doak or Blade supplant Casey at this point with virtually no time in the system.

    Maybe if there was an injury, but would be surprised if our three 9s weren’t the three from the 6N.

    Agree Joe McCarthy definitely isn’t nailed on. He (unluckily) got injured at the worst possible time this season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Munster have at least 2 more games against South African teams.

    Will be interesting if munster start casey again in both.

    Similar to how Leinster targeted Lowry last weekend I can see the South African teams target Casey again..



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I can see the South African teams target Casey again..

    But Casey's poor performance wasn't so much down to the Sharks targetting him, and much more about the Sharks targetting the Munster breakdown (which obviously had a knock on effect to Casey).

    Also far easier target a FB (or 10) than a 9.

    I think he's the closest like-for-like we have for JGP and I'd be surprised to see him miss out at this point, after a very good season overall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Far more likely to be an 18/15 forwards/backs split IMO.

    There won't be 6 backrows, and I'd wager there will be 5 back threes



  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭part time punk


    While I largely agree with Jump in Jack's assessment, think you're right here. Despite the attrition in the second and back rows - don't think there will be 4 second rows and six back rows - and I think the a.n.other in the back row misses out. Co-incidentally just finished Joe Schmidt's book earlier today and was reminded in his World cup diary for 2019 that we had five back three players then in Kearney, Earls, Larmour, Stockdale and Conway. So don't think with a bigger squad we'd have fewer this time around. As an aside had totally forgotten about various pool games being cancelled due to the typhoon's and how NZ had the extra rest week - they would have beaten us anyway but still ...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Some things that could make only 4 back three options attractive

    • Centre options of Henshaw and Aki for inside centre and Ringrose and JOB for outside centre - JOB could also fill in in the back three
    • A Baloucoune or a Stockdale or a Conway not demanding selection with their performances
    • One or more of the outhalf options being able to fill in at fullback. I'm thinking primarily of Crowley and Frawley here


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The easiest way to think about what is actually feasible in terms of squad construction is to look at the games, the rest periods, and see what's feasible in terms of the sides we'd be putting out. You realise then if we're flogging someone or have a big reliance on someone (like it would appear we do on JvdF).

    We start with Romania on Sept 9th and play on three consecutive Saturdays basically - Sept 9th Romania, Sept 16th Tonga and Sept 23rd South Africa, before having a two week break before we play Scotland.

    So we can decide to pick a relatively weakened side first up and still be very confident of getting the result against Romania.

    The glaring position of question for me is openside. Are we asking Josh van der Flier to play all four pool games and beyond, or will POM be playing there in the Romania / Tonga games (and therefore playing all four games, assuming he moves to 6 for the SA / Scot games?)

    I know apparently Caelan Doris is also now an openside, but there is clear logic you'd think for having one of Penny / Timoney / Connors / Hodnett in the squad to cover those first two games (or even one of them, and provide bench cover for the other one).

    Timoney remains the most logical option to me because i think he's the closest athletic profile to JVDF and could cover all three back row positions (and I believe has done so this year for Ulster).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    The other thing to consider is that the concussion standdown period is longer now than it was in 2019. Are there more concussion-prone players in certain positions? You've probably got Doris, Ryan and Henderson in the back five of the pack.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Genuinely think Calvin Nash could be a bolter for that 5th back three spot (assuming Keenan, Lowe, Hansen and JOB are nailed on). He's been outstanding lately and he strikes me as the sort of player Andy Farrell really likes. He's a dead cert for the extended squad IMO and if he impresses in the warm ups he has a real chance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    If Osbourne comes back I'd be shocked if he doesn't get it. He's a cut above and covers 5 positions to high degree of quality.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭ljsulster


    I think this World Cup has come too soon for Nash but he’ll definitely make squads next year and beyond. I think the man to look out for is Jacob stockdale- each game he plays he seems to be getting more and more confident showing what he’s capable of in attack and his high ball catching is getting better and better. Don’t be surprised if he hits form and plays his way into the squad.

    What I’d do for a fit Will Addison though- classy player who would be a certainty if he wasn’t made of chocolate



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, agreed. Another guy like Joe McCarthy who got injured at a bad time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Seems to me as though they see Osborne as a centre. And I don't see him going ahead of any of Bundee, McCloskey, Henshaw or Ringrose. He's not a winger and he definitely isn't needed at FB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I think this World Cup has come too soon for Nash

    With Andy Farrell, I don't think there's such thing as "too soon". If you get into camp and show the coaches what they like, they've shown they have no problem throwing you in. Look at Hansen for example. He'd played 9 games for Connacht and he went straight to being pretty much a first choice player. Ross Byrne went from being completely in the wilderness for over a year, to being a first 23 player.

    Now, I'm not saying that's what will happen with Nash. But if he keeps up his current form for the rest of the season, and get's into camp and impresses the coaches, I think it's very possible he goes to the World Cup. Especially given that the guys he's competing with (Earls, Conway, Larmour, Baloucoune, Stockdale) all have at least one big question mark over them, such as form, age, injuries or deficiencies in their game.

    Nash's current form is better than all of those guys, and the coaches have already had him involved in Emerging tours, 'A' internationals and senior squads. So he's 100% in the conversation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Stockdale is definitely moving in the right direction. The longer Ulster's season goes on the better for him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Dunno about that. He fits the same mold as JOB, but I think he'll be better personally. He's played across the backline for Leinster, and while I agree that he's likely longterm going to be in the centre, he's looked good in every position. He also has a similar cannon for a left boot as Lowe, and I could see him being used to replicate his role in the team.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    To me, JOB is more of a back-3 player who can cover centre, while Osborne is more of a centre who can cover in the back-3.

    It might come down to make-up of centre and back-3 positions, but barring injury, the 4 centre positions seem pretty locked in. And JOB is ahead of Osborne as it stands, so between the 2 of them, would be surprised if JOB wasn't favoured.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I could see one of Aki and McCloskey losing out, to have 2 back 3 slots.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I think McCloskey is up against it.

    I reckon it's between him and Osborne. Osborne plays more than one position, but then McCloskey is more international ready.

    If we bring 14 backs I think we're looking at...

    Gibson Park, Murray, Casey

    Sexton, Byrne, Crowley

    Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose

    Hansen, Lowe

    Keenan

    O'Brien and McCloskey/Osborne



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Would be absolutely shocked if Aki didn't make the squad.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    Aki is a firm favourite if Farrell’s…unless he is injured he is going to WC



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    Farrell has shown multiple times he is not as concerned about covering all spots as Joe was…..he will bring the players he wants…at the moment I can see McCloskey going unless his form falls off a cliff…Osbourne has no caps and limited time to get exposure in next few months, WC too early



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    John Ryan will be back in Munster by the world cup. Do we think he has a chance of making the Ireland squad for the Rugby World Cup. He is in great form at the moment over in New Zealand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Is Joe McCarthy likely to be fit before the WC?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    Apparently the chiefs scrum has been getting rinsed the past two games from what I've read. I'm not sure reports of him being in "great form" are accurate.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He wasn’t too bad against the Waratahs, but had a shocker of a game against the Blues and gave away 3 scrum penalties.

    Absent injury it’s very unlikely he would get ahead of Bealham or O’Toole and into the RWC squad. Whatever about scrummaging, he’s not dynamic enough and Ireland ask more of props now. Those two guys had good Championships and should retain their places.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    He fits the same mold as JOB

    He doesn't really. Osborne has only started 3 games in the back three in his pro career. Both his starts on the emerging tour were in the centre, he started for the 'A' team at centre and was named in the 6N squad as a centre. I think it's pretty clear that's where the Irish coaches see him. That's not to say he can't cover the back three. But that's very different to JOB, who is almost solely a wing/fullback who can cover 13.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    JOB probably hadn't played much in the back three either though by the time he was the age Osborne is now.

    I think Osborne clearly has it in him to play well in the back three. He's looked good at fullback, and I thought he looked pacy and imposing on the wing against Munster.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    I'm pretty sure JOB started or at least played a good chunk of a game at 10 at one point. I don't think he came through as a back three player. He's just extremely versatile.



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