Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Then why were Leinster so sh1t under MOC? I pretty much guarantee you Leinster would win nothing with the Connacht coaching setup.

Leo's first year wasn't great. Leinster have won the European cup once in ten years. From the perspective of the other provinces who haven't had much success domestically Leinster look like world beaters but they're not. Ireland's success over that period has reflected well on Leinster as they have contributed a lot of players to the Irish team and they have pulled ahead of the other due to the systems in place producing a phenomenal pipeline of players. I think the standard of coaching in schools has something to do with it, honestly. Gonzaga appearing in 3 of the last 4 SCT finals is insane given they have about 60 kids per year in the school, I'd be surprised if half the 4th years play rugby. Their coach is phenomenal but that sort of success, up against rugby machines with much bigger playing pools in Blackrock and Michaels etc, indicates there is something else going on. Maybe the fact that there is an actual professional sports option that's accessible is inspiring young athletes to really go for it and then there is a comprehensive system of support for them. Dublin is genuinely a rugby world power house because of it's private school system. But Belfast used to be, and Munster (with a different development system) used to be too. Connacht won the league with Lam coaching, it can be done, even without the advantages that Dublin has.

It's interesting that the period when the likes of Joe and Nucifora got involved has coincided with the IRFU really hitting their stride. Irish rugby now looks like NZ rugby, a style of play the is ubiquitous throughout the system, from school boys up through leagues to the national team. I watched a bit of senior cup rugby this year on YouTube and the school teams are playing a very similar style of play to Leinster and Ireland, lots of width, quick ball from fast rucks, double lines of attack offering distributors options and pulling defense out of shape to open up inside balls, Sounds easy but its incredibly hard to get teams to manage it consistently in the heat of a match, yet these school kids are pulling it off. Maybe because its basically the style of rugby they've learned since they started playing ten years ago...

I brought one of my kids to Dublin and put him in school for 6 months during covid. He's played since he was small and he got to join in some practice stuff (there wasn't any rugby happening) when some of the school coaches (mostly young kiwis/Irish) organized runarounds, skills and touch stuff in one of the clubs. He was playing with 15-18 year olds and I'd say most if them came from the private schools and the Southside clubs. They were a motivated bunch to be showing up for these informal sessions, but just watching them you could tell that eventhtough they normally didn't play together they were all on the same page, and were insanely coachable, literally doing a few run throughs of ideas with a coach and you'd see the same show up in a touch runaround game half an hour later. That's a production line.

Lol, you're right. It's also the same systems in place when Munster were the best side on the island. In truth, the structures are in place to be successful. Coaching plays a big part.

Looking ahead to Toulouse! Should be a cracker. They'll knock the scrote out of each other. My cheeks are clenched already.

Welcome back before your 2 week ban expires roverjoyce! Or maybe it’s lil Fred actually who likes to sign off with “discuss”.

"Dublin is genuinely a rugby world power house because of it's private school system. But Belfast used to be,"

True. However things have changed in N.I. for a number of reasons. Basically, private schools were abolished with the exception of Campbell College. Inst, MCB, RSA, RSD, Coleraine Inst, Dalriada etc were no longer allowed to charge fees. Various boarding departments were closed at the behest of one political party who unfortunately were given carte blanche to trash education. Many parents simply send their kids to schools in G.B. for access to private education. Then there are the changes to higher education. With the huge increase of available access to University places, there has been a massive exodus across the Irish sea to G.B. There are defined numbers of places allowed in the N.I. universities. There simply isn't room for all of those students in Queens and UUJ. Those who leave for whatever reasons rarely come back. They are young adults who discover a life for themselves elsewhere. State Schools in N.I. have also become smaller in terms of pupil numbers and fewer are large enough to have simply enough bodies to safely play rugby and of course outside the Grammar schools, soccer is king. CCMS schools naturally enjoy GAA sports and soccer, not rugby at all. They make up more than 50% of the school population. Rugby is struggling in N.I./ Ulster. The next piece of the problem also is the ubiquity of the national curriculum which defines what schools MUST teach. There is less freedom to engage in sporting activities. All of these chip away at the rugby heritage in Ulster.

How many paid underage coaches are there in Munster?

Leo's first year wasn't great. Leinster have won the European cup once in ten years. From the perspective of the other provinces who haven't had much success domestically Leinster look like world beaters but they're not.

I think this all or nothing thinking is really warped. If the only measure of success is trophies, then only one team every year is good. Leinster have been there or there about nearly every year since Lancaster arrived. Beaten finalists twice. I doubt there is any club or pundit in Europe who don’t see Leinster as a power house.

As was pointed out Leinster always had the advantage. Population, schools system producing more players. Yet they couldn’t convert it till Cheika arrived. Then Joe kicked it up a level. MOC arrived and they took a step back, a big one. Then Leo took over and with Lancasters help. They have taken it to a new level of consistency. We have only failed to make the semis once in 7 years. What other club has had that consistency?

Interesting Jaco. Thanks.

In regard to the lack of facilities. My old Grammer school from the 60s and 70s, back in England, sold most of its sports pitches to developers in the 1980s. Rugby isnt even on the curriculum now. Sad times.

The decline was already well underway under Joe. MOC had to deal with a much weakened squad and that wasn't of his making.

He wasn't the right man for the job but he was dealt a bad hand.

Having advantages works in many ways. If Leinster win in Europe, it's "the grand slam winners" or, the salary and the population etc. If they lose, it's their soft, they choked, x should be dropped from the national squad etc.

Funny how it seems to flow Leinsters way. It's never about the facts. The system provides the quality of players. The players fit in and push for minutes, driving standards higher. A survey of Englis teams shows a high percentage of imports. What's the academy system providing? Pundits talking out of their hoops about advantages etc, yet are oblivious to the influx of non homegrown players. I would assume the IRFU is currently the model on which other unions should strive to be.

Osbourne was spotted on Friday still wearing a full boot so he is gone. I don't know about Ngatai.

I think Joe McCarthy is due back soon but will they want to send him down South if there are question marks.

I'll be honest and say that on Friday Henshaw looked like he was a little short on match sharpness. That said they probably won't want to take him from the squad training together.

I doubt Larmour will travel to South Africa considering the injury to Lowe. You'd hope that the latter will be fit for the semi final, but if he isn't Leinster will start Larmour and JOB on the wings.