Unhappy with owning an EV in Ireland

KCross · 09-04-2023 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120458696#Comment_120458696

There's a few odd statements in there, in my opinion.

I also dislike it that the battery is at the bottom of the car.

Why would that bother you? Its generally considered a positive not a negative.

And then one is depended on various raw material from countries like Congo for Cobalt and others, who knows when they have another uprising or revolution.

Some companies (e.g. Tesla) have removed Cobalt from their batteries for that reason. So the battery tech changes are already out there. We can keep buying petrol/diesel cars and sure we know there are no wars over oil so we'll be grand! 😉

EVs won't have a breakthrough, unless the range gets wider and battery technology changes substantially.

There wont be any breakthrough, ever. It will, and already is, a slow burning changeover from ICE to BEV. It wont be stopped. Its already happening with EV sales increasing year on year. You just have to decide when the time is right for you based on your budget and car needs. Todays new EV's are very capable, particularly in a tiny island like ours.

Also the charging network needs to be one standard and one and the same tariff across Europe.

It is one standard.... its called CCS. Every new car has that connector.

Not sure why you would have one tariff across the EU. We dont have the same petrol prices across the EU, why would EV charging be that way?

You can travel across the continent today with an EV. You do need to do a little forward planning to ensure there are charge points on your route but other than that it works. We do, definitely, need alot more charge points though. Everyone agrees on that.

Also, why should I buy an EV in Europe when China and India is heavily investing in more and more coal power plants?

The assumption in your statement is that you should buy an EV to save the planet. Most people dont buy EV's (just) for that. There are several other good reasons to buy an EV.... running costs, maintenance costs, local emissions, smooth drive, acceleration, new tech(e.g. pre-heating) etc.

tinytobe · 09-04-2023 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459142#Comment_120459142

I've heard about different tariffs and speeds of charging for different car manufacturers.

The range is still an issue. There are so called solid state batteries which seem to allow a range of something around 700 km in range. Daimler and Mercedes Benz offers them, but these cars are a whopping 140k and upwards, unaffordable for the general public. If manufacturers would offer EVs in the price range of say, 8000 on the lower end towards 50000 on the upper end and a range of 1000 km then it's also something I can go with.

The acceleration and lack of noise doesn't interest me so much. I have no doubts about lower running costs, less maintenance, no oil change for instance, but the range is an issue. Thus an EV isn't for me. Charging for 30 minutes to 1 hour is not a choice for me, and whilst waiting paying for overpriced coffee somewhere, whilst a car salesman goes like "just think how often do you really drive for more than 500 km?"

I also doubt very much that the manufacturing on a battery and an EV consumes less CO2 than a normal car. Real independent research is also a bit hard, as the subject is very much political/ideological.

And then there is Canada, a country of minus 25 to minus 30 degree winters. How would the current battery technology fare then?

So, sadly, no nonsense in these points at all.

AndyBoBandy · 09-04-2023 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459270#Comment_120459270

And then there is Canada, a country of minus 25 to minus 30 degree winters. How would the current battery technology fare then?

See Norway……

so that point is nonsense.

I've heard about different tariffs and speeds of charging for different car manufacturers.

certain manufacturers can offer cheaper subsidised rates on certain charging networks yes….

but charging speed is governed by the car, and max charging rate is a selling point for manufacturers….. buy a Tesla LR/P and it ‘can’ charge at up to 250kW…. Buy a VW and the max charge rate is about 130kW (I think).

Cyrus · 09-04-2023 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459270#Comment_120459270

You want an eV that costs 8k and has a 1000km range?

Maybe it doesnt suit your usage profile, you could be one of the few people that drives 10s of thousand kms annually. If so then I can understand why it's a non runner, if you are like most people then current ranges offered are perfectly manageable.

I couldn't go back to an ice, I have my dad's 420d here while he is on holiday, the lack of instant torque is dangerous!

innrain · 09-04-2023 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459270#Comment_120459270

There are already unique tariffs for the EU.

Shell recharge for example not to mention everyday elli.eco

Nobody will claim the Irish network is great, in fact some studies shown surprise on how advanced the adoption is with such a poor network. The answer is the low density buildings and relatively short distances.

Today I drove to Wexford from Dublin with 47% of the battery, in my shortest range EV. A lot of head on wind and some rain. Car full, AC at 21°C. Return needs 5 mins at Ionity just to be safe. On the long range I would do one leg with about 37% so the return journey without stop. I don't know your friend's car but a 5-10 minutes stop for a 280km drive on company time is not unheard of. In my world at least. Zero BIK is hard to argue with. How much less would she take home on a normal ICE golf?

I also doubt very much that the manufacturing on a battery and an EV consumes less CO2 than a normal car. Real independent research is also a bit hard, as the subject is very much political/ideological.

Produce not consume. We'd whish. Whatever the energy storage will be, current gen of batteries, solid state batteries, fairy dust, one thing is quite certain. Electric motors will replace the engines. The benefits come from the fact that they are one order of magnitude more efficient, and can run with renewable energy. Trying to deny these shows an agenda.

tinytobe · 09-04-2023 10:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459284#Comment_120459284

Winters in Norway are different than in Canada.

Just because you see another opinion as nonsense, shows your knowledge and attitude towards this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459302#Comment_120459302

That's what it is. Once or even twice a year between Dublin and Vienna Austria but then there are years when I don't go at all. You can imagine how that would be like with the current standard of range.

To me EVs simply don't work and aren't fit for purpose, or not my purpose.

...Ghost... · 09-04-2023 11:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460100#Comment_120460100

Plenty of Canadians in EVs. Cold batteries deplete faster, but the car will power on. A frozen fuel tank is an issue for an ICE vehicle.

I wouldn't drive a Leaf to Vienna, but my Model 3 I would no problem. Very little difference in travel time compared to an ICE. And a much nicer journey....not to mention cheaper.

EVs may not suit your purpose, but I get the distinct impression you don't want them to. Stick with the ICE.

newmember2 · 10-04-2023 12:48am

EVs are a temporary gap filler until the next vehicle energy solution is implemented, hopefully hydrogen fuel cells. Either that or we'll all be using public transport.

BlueSkyDreams · 10-04-2023 1:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460422#Comment_120460422

public transport? Lol.

AndyBoBandy · 10-04-2023 3:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460100#Comment_120460100

Once or even twice a year between Dublin and Vienna Austria but then there are years when I don't go at all. You can imagine how that would be like with the current standard of range.

I don’t really need to imagine….

last summer I drove an EV from Dublin all the way to Lithuania, and had absolutely zero issues. Did I need to stop and charge a few times en route? Yes, of course, but every time I was glad of the stop to rest briefly, grab a toilet break and a snack….. average stop/charge time was about 20 minutes.

Winters in Norway are different than in Canada

yes they are, they are also different to Lithuania where winter temps can regularly drop below -20, yet EV’s are everywhere over here….

Either way we can surely both agree that winter conditions like Canada, Norway & Lithuania will never be experienced in Ireland, so if EV’s work in those extreme climates, we can be fairly confident that Ireland, and it’s harsh winters of -2 during really cold winter nights won’t be the death knell of EV’s!!

Just because you see another opinion as nonsense, shows your knowledge and attitude towards this.

well, yes, when an ‘opinion’ is compared to fact & real world experience, it’s fairly easy to call it out as nonsense when it is clearly that….

EV’s will probably never work for you until they can do 1,000km between charges, but that’s fine, the rest of society will transition to EV and realise how much better/easier/convenient it is, but there’ll always be a small minority that need to be dragged kicking and screaming over to it, and even then, they’ll probably still have a gripe over something like the lack of a smell of petrol or something…. Or they just really like changing engine oil or whatever..

AndyBoBandy · 10-04-2023 4:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460422#Comment_120460422

Ah yes Hydrogen….

So you take massive amounts of electricity (because as you know 1 kWh of electricity will create enough hydrogen to propel a car about 1km, whereas that same 1 kWh of electricity direct into a battery car would propel it about 5-6km), use it to create hydrogen (a highly combustible gas), store it, transport and distribute it via as yet unbuilt Hydrogen fuelling stations where it needs to be stored again, then transfer it to cars where it’s stored in highly pressurised tanks, to then burn it to create electricity again to propel a car about 1/5 the distance it could have been propelled had the electricity at the beginning of the process just gone straight into a battery…… and all just to save Barry & Steve 10 minutes at a refuelling stop….

Meanwhile electricity is already everywhere……. And you can even make your own!!!! (Last week I put about 175km of range into my car because it was sunny).

5 steps forward and 3 steps back…..

DaveyDave · 10-04-2023 8:04am

Why do people come here spouting nonsense showing their ignorance of EVs rather than just asking questions to learn? So many people think EVs still have 100km range like 10 year old Leafs. When I got my EV 6 months ago a lot of people at work were asking me about real world range, costs, charging speeds etc. I'm happy to share information that is useful to people. I don't have Tesla stock, I'm not here to push EVs on people. I didn't buy one to save on fuel or be eco friendly, I just wanted an affordable car with a bit of power. I personally don't care if people like or want EVs or not, as someone with an automatic license I've heard the same BS about why people shouldn't drive automatic cars.

People are genuinely surprised I can get 380-400km in Summer and 300km in Winter, they thought it would be much less. They're surprised to see it's a normal looking car inside and out and that I have a full size boot and that I'm not driving below the speed limit or with climate control off to save battery.

Don't start with what China are India are doing when a huge number of people in Ireland have been buying the wrong type of car for the last 15 years, people happily sitting outside a school pumping diesel fumes for their 5 minute school run or the majority of people living and working in Dublin driving a diesel when they should be driving a petrol. If the fuel tank being under the rear seats isn't a concern for people then neither is the battery being in the floor.

"Range is an issue" to who? This always gets mentioned, your commute to work is more than 300km every day? My sister has been doing a 130km commute in a Kona for the last 2 years, she literally just replaced it with another one. She earns 6 figures, she could have gotten the 600km range Mercedes if she wanted but didn't need one. I don't know anyone in work doing more than 2 hour commute per day, a good few people in my office live outside Dublin. Worst case scenario, Winter at 120kph you'll get 2-3 days out of a charge but you can charge it each night so it has a full battery ready just incase you need to do extra unplanned driving.

Not everyone does that driving. My commute is 28km per day. I average around 35km/day so I get 7-10 days from a charge.

A lot of people go down the country once or twice a year so just charge on the motorway to/from your destination or plug in somewhere when you get there. If you're doing that every week you'll probably struggle and maybe EV isn't for you but this doesn't reflect the majority of owners. My brother in law takes the Kona across the country to surf, no issue charging on the way back.

Price isn't even a good argument when a Polo is €30k and a Golf/Focus is €40k these days.

EVs aren't for everyone. It's ok if you don't want one, don't like them or even just can't afford it.

Gumbo · 10-04-2023 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460629#Comment_120460629

Stop with the sense talking. That’s not allowed round here!

...Ghost... · 10-04-2023 2:29pm

Just for kicks, I went to check the difference in time driving an ICE from Dublin to Vienna.

23 hours and 59 minutes in an ICE.

https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/Custom%2BHouse%2BQuay%2C%2BNorth%2BDock%2C%2BDublin/Vienna%2C%2BAustria/%4050.6267667%2C-0.2158088%2C6z/data%3D%213m1%214b1%214m14%214m13%211m5%211m1%211s0x48670e8e5abe5ab9%3A0xfe1d0cc0cd5fe136%212m2%211d-6.2506375%212d53.3481876%211m5%211m1%211s0x476d079e5136ca9f%3A0xfdc2e58a51a25b46%212m2%211d16.3738189%212d48.2081743%213e0

25 hours and 47 minutes in a standard Model 3.

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=e5df9495-6a4b-4ed6-94db-def666e9c353

Same route was automatically chosen....no way points entered. 10 charge stops along the route. Total 3 hours and 9 minutes charging.

Personally, I think I would be stopping off for longer than that on such a long journey.

innrain · 10-04-2023 4:08pm

The thing is very few people would do this drive. Hat off to them. I won't be one even if I'd wish to be.

Anyway back from Rosslare

Current trip shows the return leg.

Google says

I didn't drive like an ICE, I drove better :)

Trip A shows the whole journey. 54kWh well within the battery capacity with sentry mode ON, AC at 22/21, car full of kids and paraphernalia. Again this is the slowest, smallest battery, least efficient Tesla. The 64kWh 2019 Kona would probably do better, and the Model 3LR would do it with less than 3/4 of battery. These are the cars I know, and they will all do this trip return with no stop.

josip · 10-04-2023 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461839#Comment_120461839

The RWD is more efficient than the LR or performance.

n.d.os · 10-04-2023 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120458599#Comment_120458599

She bought the wrong car then. She should have asked for something with more range. Also, unless she's driving quite fast, she should make it up and back in an ID3.

n.d.os · 10-04-2023 9:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459270#Comment_120459270

Why would you need 1000km of range per day in a car?

AndyBoBandy · 10-04-2023 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462961#Comment_120462961

For the 1-2 times some years he might drive to Vienna.

n.d.os · 10-04-2023 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463134#Comment_120463134

2068km in one stint without stopping for a few 30 minute breaks to grab a bit of food and have a wee. That's impressive.

MightyMunster · 10-04-2023 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463169#Comment_120463169

All you need is a platypus hooked up with some watery soup, a flask of coffee and a nappy, happy out for 24 hours of driving non stop. A Diesel should easily do 2068km without a refuel as well 🙄

Buddy Bubs · 10-04-2023 10:45pm

I don't know anyone with access to home charger that doesn't like their EV. Only one I ever heard giving out was a taximan at a charger in an mg4 who said he had no home charger and was changing back to an ICE. Just saw the grants available and made wrong choice.

n.d.os · 10-04-2023 10:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463224#Comment_120463224

I presume it can't be a modern diesel because they were designed by the government with all that ad blue nonsense? It needs to be something like a 2014 Skoda Octavia, but in estate form for the extra slipstream.

Mr Q · 11-04-2023 8:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462947#Comment_120462947

I have an ID.3 and it won't get to Dublin airport and back from Wexford town on a single charge at the speed limit, it is about 320km. I would need a quick charge somewhere.

I'm all for EVs but people need to be realistic about the real range before they buy one.

TitianGerm · 11-04-2023 8:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463835#Comment_120463835

Luckily you have Ionity at Gorey and a 5-10 minutes stop will see you home with some to spare.

Comer1 · 11-04-2023 9:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462947#Comment_120462947

She didn't buy it, it's a company car. Ten minute charge is a huge price to pay. Sure anyone would "hate" a car like that.

innrain · 11-04-2023 9:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463835#Comment_120463835

Do you know the battery size? I may be wrong but I think they sold 2 batteries 58 and 77 kWh. Roughly how much energy it uses on a return journey? Would have been great to have good charging facility at Dublin Airport to top up while waiting, but for 20 quid a day parking they have very little. Although there is some DC charging at the exit of the long term which I find kinda pointless. I don't want to start a journey by waiting the car to charge, after few hours in the plane/airports.

waterwelly · 11-04-2023 9:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460290#Comment_120460290

How is it a much nicer journey?

Mr Q · 11-04-2023 9:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463919#Comment_120463919

It is the 58kWh version, I think the percentage sold here with the larger battery is tiny.

AndyBoBandy · 11-04-2023 9:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463945#Comment_120463945

Tesla’s can effectively drive themselves on motorways, rendering the driver as an observing passenger… then there’s the overall smoothness of EV compared to the constant droning vibrations from an ICE engine.

and having done some fairly long trips myself in a Model 3, I can confirm that compared to an ICE (my 320d), it’s an infinitely better and more relaxing experience in the Tesla…

Ive driven 200-300km stints in an ICE and been shattered afterwards, but then I’ve done 500-600km stunts in the Tesla and felt fresh as a daisy afterwards…

Unhappy with owning an EV in Ireland

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