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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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    #3782
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,861 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461046#Comment_120461046

    Ah I see.. now that the "1850s" argument has failed, you are trying to drag in legal and productive migration to muddy the waters. Ok then...

    I doubt there's very many working in the multinationals you refer to who arrived off the plane with no passport, or in the back of a container, or who skipped through multiple countries first to get here and claim asylum.

    No, those other migrants came here legally, with skills to offer and/or a job to come to, and have indeed contributed positively to our tax take and society. No one has any problem with that and I challenge you to find a post that does. Those folks are not the issue being discussed here.

    But you already know that of course!



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    #3783
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    The most confusing thing to me is the people fleeing wars.

    They all seem to be young men which is different from all wars in the past.

    Women, kids and elderly were sent for refugee while men stay behind and fight.

    These days the men flee and let the women, kids and elderly fight wars.

    It's almost as if it's made up.



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    #3784
    Ramasun
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    For people claiming asylum there is a legal process to decide if they have the right to stay or not.

    If you are objecting to that process then "Hello Suellen Braverman", take your manure with you.



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    #3785
    high_tower
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭high_tower


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461046#Comment_120461046

    give over would you. Stop grouping all immigrants in together. We all know here there’s a difference between a doctor moving over with his family and the trackie clad groups of young men from god knows where.

    Go have a look at who’s in the city west or east wall complex and tell me they’ll be anything over than one big net drain. They’re the same people that travel all around Europe leeching until they move on. And in Ireland they’ve hit the benefits jackpot.



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    #3786
    high_tower
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭high_tower


    I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the govs in Algeria , Georgia etc use this migration crises as a way to push out a load of the dregs. Send them off to be someone else’s problem.



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    #3787
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,861 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461102#Comment_120461102

    I'm afraid the "racists, racists everywhere!" tactic doesn't wash here my friend.

    Ireland is known the world over for its generally easy going and welcoming attitudes. But even that has limits, especially when it's being blatantly abused by some. That's the problem. That and the reality you seem determined to ignore with your deflecting and whataboutery - namely there's only so much we can do, we're already doing enough, and now we have real problems because of folks like yourself insisting that we "do more!"

    Try responding to some of the questions and points put to you by myself and others maybe?



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    #3788
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460329#Comment_120460329

    No

    Legal obligations to accept people as refugees are nothing to do with assessing people to see if they are refugees or not. Sorry you are getting 2 completely things mixed up.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3789
    tesla_newbie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461181#Comment_120461181

    One precedes the other, we are an outlier in terms of the latter



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    #3790
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I wish this thread would die. I really do. I started it

    Ireland should have a tougher refugee policy because

    1) We actually have now one of the highest immigrant populations in the EU. Time to concentrate on integration

    2) we simply don't have space because of the war in the Ukraine and a housing crisis

    3) We had a weak system that allowed undocumented people board planes etc

    We still need some immigrants in specialist areas but with the housing crisis best to take those arriving with a visa so we can assume they have somewhere to go.

    We must look after the Ukrainians above all else otherwise we are turning our backs on a European democracy



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    #3791
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461187#Comment_120461187

    They are completely different things.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3792
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,861 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461191#Comment_120461191

    I agree in principle with all of this, except the last paragraph.

    We should look after Ukrainians, or any other GENUINE refugees, insofar as is realistic and sustainable given all of the other challenges we face in this country, and not at the expense of limiting, denying or otherwise negatively impacting those same essential services and supports needed by our native and existing legal citizens.

    Charity begins at home and we have more than enough problems to deal with right here. I have sympathy for the Ukrainian situation of course, but let's not forget that they have a vast country to seek refuge in, not to mention all the others they must pass through to get to Ireland.

    We can only do so much, and we absolutely have no room for welfare shoppers or economic migrants who have no needed skills to offer or jobs lined up.

    We absolutely have no place for those who destroy their documents or turn up in the back of containers from France, or whom abuse our hospitality by committing serious crimes. All of these should be escorted to the airport and put on a plane back to wherever they arrived from.



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    #3793
    SuperBowserWorld
    Registered Users Posts: 7,060 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    This thread has run its course.

    I am sick to death of manufactured Irish guilt on refugees/immigration/racism.

    If people, Irish or otherwise, are claiming we are racist, violent, anti immigrant, ... then they should take a long hard look at the countries and societies people are seeking refuge from.



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    #3794
    high_tower
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭high_tower


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461334#Comment_120461334

    This is one of the only sites with a good two way debate. Every other Irish site seems to be all about open borders.



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    #3795
    SuperBowserWorld
    Registered Users Posts: 7,060 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461367#Comment_120461367

    Yep, it's very undemocratic where the conversation is all one way, and no way represents the opinion of the population, just those who are most noisy on social media.

    The thread title is wrong and inflammatory here unfortunately. A tiny percentage of the population are advocating zero refugees.



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    #3796
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460597#Comment_120460597

    My main point would be though that we don't have a particularly high intake of refugees compared to any other country in Europe. For much of the period between 2010 and 2020, the number of asylum seekers was very much on the low side compared to other EU states. I'm scratching my head that being 'anti-refugee' seems to be a thing in Ireland or that we have seen protests outside direct provision centres and hotels this year.

    It does seem like people are deliberately conflating the housing / accommodation crisis with the refugee issue, when they are two completely different subjects. Nearly all asylum seekers live in state accommodation (direct provision centres, hostels, hotels, army barracks etc), not in houses or apartments. Every single country in Europe has asylum centres and a refugee population. The protests here almost seem to be suggesting that we are some sort of outlier.



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    #3797
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461417#Comment_120461417

    You are jumping back and forth between refugee and asylum seeker.



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    #3798
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,621 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461459#Comment_120461459

    Invariably they turn out to be the same thing. Certainly a majority of people who claim asylum in any given country usually have their claim granted and are then classed as refugees.



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    #3799
    Ramasun
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461166#Comment_120461166

    If you're objecting to the current system what is your alternative?



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    #3800
    Ramasun
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    We have a legal system in place to deal with asylum seekers and if it's not working that's on us not the refugees.



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    #3801
    Kyokushin Grappler
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Kyokushin Grappler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461334#Comment_120461334

    The labels "Racist","Fascist",etc have lost their meanings because that seems to be one side's only way of debating their policies.



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    #3802
    high_tower
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭high_tower


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461744#Comment_120461744

    Thanks for that contribution…



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    #3803
    Ramasun
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461334#Comment_120461334

    There's definitely something manufactured about this. We've been dealing with refugees for decades but suddenly when Ukrainians turn up after their country was invaded there are organised mobs against them.



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    #3804
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461744#Comment_120461744

    No not us. It's on the government. If it was on me there would be a 1% approval rate



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    #3805
    Ramasun
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461784#Comment_120461784

    You must change wigs between Luas stops.



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    #3806
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461791#Comment_120461791

    Many open borders advocates live in well to do leafy suburbs far away from where refugees, immigrants and the rest end up living and completing with the locals.

    In fact if it were not for the pictures on the trocaire box where they used to throw the burdensome coinage many wouldn't have ever seen a poor person.

    To those I say open your doors as wide as you open your mouths



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    #3807
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    100,000 asylum seekers and ISP in one year. 15,000 kids at least need school places. They all need medical access. Many will want to move out to their own housing as soon as possible.


    20,000 are being up in private housing funded by the state


    1/3 of hotels and tourist accommodation occupied by them. 1.5 billion annual spend at the current rate.


    But yeah you tell us there is no effect which is complete rubbish.

    Post edited by maninasia on


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    #3808
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454954#Comment_120454954

    You can be sure the breakdown of that 5m will be as follows:

    - 500k transporting a few dogs over from Ukraine, business class

    - the remaining 4.5m on fat cat consultancy fees


    Untitled Image




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    #3809
    Ramasun
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    We're fortunate to be free to disagree on this even if I'm not sure everyone is genuine or in possession of the facts.


    There'll be a free and fair election soon enough and we'll vote for the candidates that reflect our views. Never take that for granted.



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    #3810
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461831#Comment_120461831

    Where is that 100,000 in 1 year figure coming from exactly?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3811
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Google it yourself don't be so lazy.


    https://extra.ie/2023/03/04/news/irish-news/varadkar-housing-for-refugees


    *The Government said accommodation has been sourced for almost 60,000 people fleeing the war in Ukraine, and 20,000 other asylum seekers.

    In addition, another 20,000 Ukrainian refugees have found their own accommodation.

    In all, the number of new arrivals totals 96,400*



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