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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You talking pocketmoney in comparison to what the US have provided,war is expensive,it costs alot of money keeping an army the size of Ukraine operational.

    Ukraine probably have 7-800 000 men at arms at the moment,Irelands budget is 1,2 billion for 8000,and Ireland doesnt even have an airforce.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    At the moment, according to most polls, they do (in the one I linked it's 51% for with 30% against, March 2023)

    As the conflict drags on I expect support to naturally decrease as interest wanes (public are fickle), I'm actually impressed with how strong US/EU support for Ukraine has been so far. I was expecting much more division and petty politics.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well we all want that,but i am saying there is a political side to this as well,and thats not always how we want it to end.

    Just seeing things from a realistic viewpoint

    And NATO have dried up all their ammo nearly to support Ukraine,and why Germany had to say stop

    The good thing about this war,is that Europe had a major wake up call,with defense budgets lacking for years,we see the results of it now.

    NATO stocks have to be refilled,and that can take a long time,espesially with a war going on in Ukraine.

    At the end of the day,countries that supports Ukraine,will come to a stage where their own security comes before Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    My poll says different to your poll but yours is also from a reputable source just like mine is.

    I would agree that support will drop as time goes on. Especially if the US economy starts to significantly slow and jobs are lost. People will start to question sending money overseas.

    Interestingly some experts and economists say a US recession with a hard landing is on the way. Others say the opposite. No recession and no hard landing.

    It's a bit like the polls - it depends on who you ask



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Your whole reasoning seems to be based on this idea that western support can/will wither but doesn't question whether Russia can stay as long as that would take. Every concern about ammo stockpiles, about political pressure/public willingness, about money to fund the thing are equally concerns of Russia's, if not more so because they are directly involved in it. They couldn't last ten years of low level war in Afghanistan. Can they last two of a high level where the body bags are coming back in their thousands and thousands? That certainly remains to be seen. If the vaunted Ukrainian counteroffensive fails, Russia have little to no ability to significantly push forward, so negotiations would not happen directly afterward. And if Russia has the ability to magic millions/billions more rounds of ammunition up in quick time, then so do NATO countries.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Rouble not doing great at all. Cracks showing, even with their totalitarian capital controls.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That remains to see,so far it have worked out well for Russias war of attrition,but for how long can it be sustainable is another story

    Like i said earlier,the only things that can stop Russia is any domestic trouble,economic collapse or the removal of Putin.

    And Russia probably have millions of rounds in stock from soviet union,for how long this will last nobody knows,and the quality of it nobody knows either,but it didnt stop them so far.

    Regardless ,time is ticking for both sides and many wants to see Ukraines offensive sucseed,but what if it doesnt.

    Russia have had months to prepare their defences now,so it wont be a walk in the park like last time,just saying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Field east


    I would be amazed if the broad west, Baltic countries, NATO members do not stay the course with Ukr until Moscovy has been brought to its senses - no matter how long it takes because if that is not the case Moscovy will continue on its merry way interfering in other countries elections/economies, cutting cables when it feels like it, cyber attacks - all with a view to weaken the opposition at every opportunity. . This is a global war that the outcome is going to effect all countries in different ways - in good or bad ways- depending on who wins.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The EU is far more important in terms of financial aid to Ukraine than the US is anyway.

    The US is important for weapons and those are showing no signs of slowing down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    According to Europa.eu polling as published on their site :

    "This Flash Eurobarometer survey shows large consensus among EU citizens in all EU Member States in favour of the EU’s response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine"

    This is a blatant lie

    Politico.eu digs deeper into the poll:

    "The study shows major discrepancies between member countries, however. The EU’s support for Ukraine is more popular in Nordic countries, the Netherlands, Ireland and Portugal, where it is approved by more than 90 percent of the population. On the other end of the spectrum, less than half of respondents in Greece, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Cyprus said they approved of the EU’s actions towards Ukraine"

    If it were Russian it would be labelled as propaganda. The EU is dishonest as much as Putin etc



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭macraignil


    How can you say things have worked out well with the moskovytes war of attrition. The moskovytes have lost tens of thousands of troops and thousands of a varity of types of military equipment. This moskovyte invasion of Ukraine can not be charaterised as anything but an ongoing disaster for moskovyte forces.

    The only thing that can stop the moskovytes I would say is not just a collapse from within as you say but also a physical demolition of their military in Ukraine as is ongoing.

    I don't know the source of your count on the moskovyte rounds in stock but sources I have seen have pointed out the use of moskovyte artillery has been reduced recently and as well as the destruction of their artillery systems this is very likely to be due to issues with their stocks with large stockpiles destroyed by Ukrainian missile strikes over the last few months.

    Time is not standing still but as I said already this is an existential conflict for Ukraine and they are not going to just stop and let the moskovytes destroy their country.

    I think a lot of this trench building by the moskovytes will be revealed to be a pointless pastime to keep the troops sent to Ukriane distracted from drinking vodka for a while and not prove much of an obstacle for a well organised Ukrainian offensive but even if it yields results that are not as dramatic as some might hope the AFU will not simply give up after the first attempt to free their country from moskovyte oppression.





  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Approved by 90% of the population,

    You mean several hundred people if we're actually lucky, going by polls the previous poll you Linked was only based 1000 people,

    Wether they are real people or not is a different story .

    Boards example one person can operate 10 + accounts and give an opinion on various topics giving a skewd views on topics



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Exactly.

    The EU polling results are fraudulent.

    The claim of unified and uniform bloc support for Ukraine is a lie.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Russia have a population thats 5 times larger than Ukraine,5 times larger Army,5 times more armoured vehicles and tanks,5 times larger airforce,10 times more artillery 20 times more missiles

    How long its sustainable is up to the russian people,but they are under constant propaganda and misinformation from Kremlin,so i have my doubts.

    Thats Putins goal of the war of attrition,to dry Ukraine for resources



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You are misunderstanding both sources. There is large consensus among EU citizens.

    Individual countries, e.g. Bulgaria, Serbia have always shown middling support, the average across Europe is high (taking into account everyone)



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,035 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Polls always sample a small subset of population in order to estimate support across that population.

    Polls do not ask 100s of thousands of people for this kind of thing. It simply doesn't happen. Polling methodology has been done with only samples of 1000-10000 people for decades, and it has been proven reliable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭briany


    How has attrition worked out well for Russia? Are they in Kyiv? No. Have they taken the whole of the Donbas? No. Have they even taken the whole of Bakhmut, after throwing god knows how much at it for the better part of a year? No. This is nothing like where they expected to be a year into this. Frankly, I think Putin expected to have a pencil holder made of Zelenskyy's head by this time and for all mentions of Ukraine to be edited from Russian history books.

    The iron rain that seemed like it would enable the Russians to slowly grind its way westward last summer has ceased. This will be a clue to what Russian shell stocks are and would be a microcosm of its ammo situation as a whole. A country that has to go cap in hand to Iran and North Korea and is taking the mothballs off of WW2 era tanks is not one that could be said to be doing terrifically on the ammo and equipment fronts.

    And if NATO must hold some ammunition in reserve, then so must Russia. After all, it has much territorial interest to maintain apart from its ambitions within Ukraine.

    And if we look at the political situation in Russia, you have bloggers blowing up and open bickering between factions of its military. It is the case in dictatorships like Russia that dissent is ruthlessly suppressed. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, though. That means it is driven underground. You won't see the real cracks until it is far too late for Putin.

    While Putin may be willing to fling any number of Russian bodies at Ukraine, the Russian bodies themselves are not uniformly willing to be flung.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,970 ✭✭✭Christy42


    If polls depend on who you ask than ignoring one is not ignoring the will of the people and your previous statement was wildly OTT. Especially as you were very definitive that your poll was definitive about the feelings of the US public.


    Support is unlikely to drop. The economy is pretty irrelevant for it, the US had a recession in 2008 with the rest of the world and pumped money into Iraq and the middle east. It is being used as a political football by the Republicans. If they find a new one in the space of the economy than opposition will fade as people forget about the money being spent there. If support would stop they would whip their crowd into arguing the Dems are weak on Putin so there really is little risk of the US backing out barring a massive recession, even then it is unlikely either party would want to seem weak by removing aid.


    Finally even looking at the poll itself I don't see anything on the don't knows to know what the %s would be with them discounted, the lowest support with don't know's included is 46% so certainly no member state is particularly against it. It seems pretty unlikely that EU support will stop any time soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    The Europa release claims large support in all EU states.

    It should read large support in many EU member states and not in others.

    That's how I would read it



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thats not the point of the Putins war of attrition,its to drain Ukraine and western support for manpower,ammunition,missiles,artillery,tanks,fighter jets untill they run out or simply cant provide anymore support,and then set in the final offensive.

    And ever since Stalin,Russia dont care about losses,they can make up their own numbers as they please,and anyone protesting,well we know what happens to them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    Are the Russians not able to access that massive ammo dump in Moldova or is it just unusable junk waiting to be safely decommissioned?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Before the moskovyte attack on Ukriane the figures for their population was 43.79million in 2021 as compared to the population of the russian federation in the same year of 143.4million. This does not equate to 5 times larger which would require russia to have a population of over 200million.

    I have already posted numbers recorded of destroyed moskovyte equipment in Ukriane so I think any advatage they may have had there has also been seriously eroded and the fact they have been shown to be pulling out of storage 70 year old tanks is evidence for this.

    Again I must say that I think the end of this conflict is not likely to be just down to the russian people as you like to say. It's just my opinion from what I have seen so far in the actions of the people of Ukraine to stand up to the moskovytes but I think their determination to be free from putin is stronger than any desire from the moskovytes to build an empire for their leader.

    It is not just the resources you have listed that will have an impact in the long term if this conflict drags on but the economic strength of both sides and before the war escalated the moskovyte share of global GDP was just 3% with the GDP of the EU, USA, UK and other countries backing Ukraine many times this figure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    I assume you are aware that the term "moskovyte" just means someone from Moscow.

    Like calling the Irish military Dubs or Kerrymen etc



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well 4-5 times larges,peanuts if you ask me,you get my point,they are larger in all aspects

    The Reason why they pulled out 70 years old tanks are part of the war of attrition,to sacrifice those for destroyed Ukrainan equipment.

    Even if it takes 5 to destroy one Leopard or 8 to destroy one challenger or 10 to destroy one Abrams,doesnt matter when you have 800 of them.

    Thats what Putins war of attrition is about,to drain Ukraine for equipment,untill they run out of western tanks,anti tank missiles etc etc

    And hope that western support lose interest because it costs money and their own stocks run low,budgets politics etc etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    No, it's more like Irish Americans calling themselves Irish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Russia don't have enough for a 'final offensive'. The equipment isn't there and the logistics are not there. If Russia couldn't overwhelm Ukraine at the beginning of this war when Ukraine by all metrics were dwarfed by Russia in terms of armaments and personnel, then how would anyone expect them to do it later on after having their own draining? Russia are not the kings of attrition warfare, either, and it's hardly as if they're undefeated in wars throughout their modern history.

    And, actually, it' Putin who doesn't care about losses (ostensibly), and he has that luxury sitting in his dacha. The Russian people aren't necessarily going to feel the same way. Russia, as a whole, was prepared to make heavy sacrifices in WW2 because every man jack in the country knew that the war was an existential one. That is not true for Russia's attempt upon Ukraine. It's Russia's Vietnam. A folly. Thousands of people coming back of a given week in body bags for what? For what?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Must be a slow day when people are debating polls. I'm sure people loose interest when there's a lul on the battlefield. If the Ukrainian counter offensive makes key gains, you will see more support. I'd say it's hard for some Americans to fully back Ukraine when they don't see gains on the battlefield etc...

    Anyways, you can pretty much see Russia have gained very very little territory in the past 12 months. Their 'winter/spring offensive' was a flop.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thats what everyone have been saying since the start of the invasion,still Russia is pouring in more manpower and old tanks each time

    And you be surprised when you have a imaginary enemy like NATO what support you can get in Russia

    Thats why the focus in Ukraine went from Ukraine only to involve NATO in the russian propaganda.

    They won the war off attrition vs Finland in 1939 taking heavy casulties too remember,allthough Finland still kept their independence and freedom.

    And Finland didnt get as much support as Ukraine is getting



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Look at the actual population numbers I posted. 4 times the population is also wrong just like the 5 times you tried to post initially. From what I can see besides having a larger stock pile of out of date military equipment the only thing larger for the moskovytes side invading Ukraine is the land area they control is larger than any other country even before they have decided they needed to cease more at the price of killing thousands and making millions homeless in a country that they agreed by treaty not to attack. The numbers of anti tank weapons in Ukraine is multiples of the total number of tanks the moskovytes have, even including those that are hugely out of date and outclassed by more modern weapons so to say they are hoping to use up these weapons is similar to saying they are hoping to use up Ukrainian bullets by sending so many conscripts to run at their possitions. The moskovyte economy is starting to crumble and their ability to produce modern military equipment is now much reduced so I am really not convinced that this war of attrition strategy you think putin is doing so well with is going to help them avoid a dramatic defeat in Ukraine if not this year but in the not too distant future beyond that.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Still peanuts,and irrelevant,Russia is much larger than Ukraine in military power,thats what this is about,and much more powerful in resources as well i am sure you get the point.

    If you cant handle the facts tough luck,i have explained it to you

    Reality is sometimes hard to swallow

    thats how Putins war of attrition works

    If he succseeds we dont know,but Ukraine wont last without western support,thats a fact and without US its nearly impossible.

    Thats why Ukraines counter offensive will be their last chance and hopefully Putins last chance as well,if they succseed.

    I want Ukraine to win as much as you do,but i am also seeing things from a realistic point of view if they dont.



This discussion has been closed.
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