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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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    #3872
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    At least you got in a father ted gif.

    48,000+ residency visas granted for non EU in first 6 months of 2022. Another 3,000 through EU residency rights treaties.

    https://www.irishimmigration.ie/immigration-statistics-for-january-to-june-2022/


    Now add in your EU legal immigrants along with UK folks, that's a lot of immigrants.



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    #3873
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463629#Comment_120463629

    Knock me over with a feather, that's simply MASSIVE,

    But, here's the problem maninasia: you're simply MASSIVE 48k figure for those 6 months isn't residency visas, they're visas granted of all types, which will include a significant amount of plain 'ol tourist visas (probably a majority) for visa-required nationals on short-term visits.

    😂

    You are too easy. For your own sake, do a bit of due dilligence before you hit the post button next time. Simply brilliant, cracking stuff out of you.



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    #3874
    beeker1
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭beeker1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463623#Comment_120463623

    I will concede on your point about the scandi's, malmo is the rape capital of Europe, that's from the BBC , the perpetrators are mainly from NW Pakistan. Like I say this is BBC reporting not Swedish Democrat propaganda !



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    #3875
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Sure the top visas granted were Indians, Turks, Chinese, Pakistanis, Nigerians and Filipinos and Turks, yeah they are the main tourists visiting Ireland...not.


    It is obvious the vast majority are for resident visas, students and working. Indians in particular have been flocking to Ireland, to study and work in healthcare in particular.


    That's at least 48,000 non EU in first half and probably similar in 2nd half 2022.


    Then you got 15,000 Brazilians moving to 'study English '. They aren't even included in those numbers !


    Pathetic effort again to try and downplay the numbers that have moved here.


    I'm not saying this is good or bad.

    But there has been large scale immigration into Ireland of non EU folks aswell as EU folks.



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    #3876
    Guildenstern
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    Disregarding all the left/right arguments and who has the right numbers, essentially we have a large number of people arriving in a country at a time of such an accommodation crisis. Yes, we have had housing emergencies in the past but never to the stage of the level of dysfunction there is now evident in both the sale and rental sectors.

    In a country that to be honest doesn't do long term planning that well and a social support structure that is below average at best. Increase in population year on year, a poor policy framework or when good policies are put in place, they are just not enforced.

    Despite the best of intentions, Ireland while undoubtedly having the actual landmass, is still someway off being the modern European democracy it tries to project itself as.

    400 or so walking the streets should be a wake up call but it probably isn't. What if it gets to a thousand or even more. Are we just expecting people to stop turning up because word gets out we haven't got the housing in place?



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    #3877
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463693#Comment_120463693

    100 percent wrong because visas in Ireland (much like Schengen) are for entry to the country only, be it short term for tourism / visiting family / conferences or possibly applying for a relevant "stamp" and IRP (which does confer a right to reside for however long).

    Visas do not confer residence rights and nowhere in your magic figures does it say so, because they are not resident permits.

    Once again, you're owning yourself and peddling bs.

    Fake numbers McManinasia they call him. Nobody is downplaying anything, you're just getting found out for making sh*t up.



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    #3878
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461996#Comment_120461996

    You are disageeing for the sake of it. I see the figure is 90 k for 2022 the link 96k its now 100k +.A deduction of 10k can be made for those Ukranians who have left as per CSO estimates.

    Post edited by rgossip30 on


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    #3879
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Suuuuree the Indians, Turks, Nigerians and Filipinos are all tourists. Suurrre.


    Give it up Yurt stop insulting our intelligence.

    There was an absolutely massive increase in immigration in 2022.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41100601.html


    The State issued almost 306,000 personal public service (PPS) numbers last year, a significant increase on previous years, new figures have shown.

    A total of 68,884 PPS numbers were issued to Ukrainians and there was also a rise in the numbers issued to people from countries including:

    • India: 21,471 in comparison to 13,815 in 2021;
    • Romania: 15,581 in comparison to 14,036 in 2021;
    • Spain: 9,310 in comparison to 6,850 in 2021;
    • Algeria 1,488; in comparison to 169 in 2021;
    • France; 47,259 in comparison to 3,049 in 2021;
    • Brazil; 16,414 in comparison to 2,692.

    In 2021, the total number of PPS numbers issued was 174,525 despite restrictions on travel due to covid-19, and the figure was 132,001 in 2020. A total of 196,177 PPS numbers were issued in 2019, when no pandemic travel restrictions were in place



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    #3880
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭enricoh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463629#Comment_120463629

    Not forgetting the ,ahem, once in a lifetime amnesty for those here illegally last year. Family repatriation for asylum seekers given leave to remain also. Anyone know the average no. of people repatriated per asylum seeker?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41005649.html



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    #3881
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464124#Comment_120464124

    This may shock and surprise you, but for instance approx 40k Indians visit Ireland each year as tourists (Indian embassy figures) Each and every one of those are visa-required to enter.

    You're conflating visa issuances with residence permits. Nowhere in the stats you vommed does it say those visa issuances are residence permits. Because they're not. So once again, you're making sh*t up and trying to pawn it off as fact.

    A visa is not a residence permit no matter how many times you post it.

    You are a zero-credibility poster with a compunction to lie when you're floundering. And floundering you are.



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    #3882
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    306,000 PPS numbers in one year!


    How could we not have a housing, healthcare etc etc crisis

    Mass immigration defined



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    #3883
    Luxembourgo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463627#Comment_120463627

    You don't think there are mass amounts of legal migration?



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    #3884
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463923#Comment_120463923

    PPS numbers are not issued to tourists those are the figures being discussed have you not grasped that !



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    #3885
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463609#Comment_120463609

    I assume you can provide a link that its 31% less Ukranians remaing here .

    The latest UNHCR figure is 77300 and 19731 in DP add to that about 2000 in own accommodation. Links are only to February.



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    #3886
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464379#Comment_120464379

    He posted 6 month figures for visa issuances (20k or thereabouts for Indians for instance). 20k Indians were definitively not granted residence in that 6 month window.

    That's flat-out b*llocks and it's going to be called out. And the same goes for the other nationalities. As much as this may surprise him, non-EU visa required nationals can be and are tourists and short term visitors.

    Example: A neighbour of mine is a Filipino nurse. Her sister and mother came to visit a few months back. They were visa required. Dunderhead here wants to lob their visit in as "residence visa". He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

    Visa issuances are not residence permits.

    In fact his own PPS figures over 12 months reveal that Indians granted a residence permit at half the rate of the first he was trying to peddle.

    He was also bunging in figures for French and Spanish nationals for some reason.

    He's talking mad b*llocks.



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    #3887
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Sour sour yoghurt that's alI I'm seeing here.


    PPS numbers have EXPLODED , up 80% year on year.


    306,000 PPS numbers issued says it all.


    Not my fault immigration won't split out the types of visas issued when they easily could. They definitely correlate with PPS numbers to a large degree though.


    Sour yogurt just sits back trying to douse everybody with sourness. Doesn't even find any of his own data or links.

    Didn't provide visa numbers..I did.

    Didn't provide PPS numbers ...I did.


    PPS numbers are the gold standard data we need to reference.



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    #3888
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464528#Comment_120464528

    You're unable to read data and are bunging-in tourists and EU expats with PPS numbers along with non EU immigration.

    You don't have a bean what you're talking about.



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    #3889
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464496#Comment_120464496

    It's in the CSO stat release. They estimate circa 60k Ukrainians remain and circa 14K have left for other countries or returned to Ukraine.

    It's table 4 in the series 9 stat release. Knock yourself out.

    So no, not the concocted 80k that maninasia came up with. You're better off asking him where he came up with that. He can't because he made it up.



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    #3890
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464559#Comment_120464559

    Desperate to try and knock down the numbers anyway you can.

    Its bizarre.

    But you somehow MISSED that PPS numbers issued were up 80% year on year? Curious isn't it.


    What's the agenda?



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    #3891
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464504#Comment_120464504

    The link is from the DSP and shows yearly figures for those granted pps numbers . You are jumping around about visa issuances.



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    #3892
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Also, the visa issuance numbers do not correlate with the pps numbers, so you're talking bulldust there again.

    In fact the pps figures prove you're talking sh*te. Because Indians are issued PPS numbers at half the rate of visa issuances. Which means about half are short term visitors probably here to see the Cliffs of Moher or visit family, and you want to bung them in as residents.

    That's congealed nonsense and you know it is. But you made the mistake of proffering one data set and trying to pawn it off as another and now you're caught by the short and curlies.



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    #3893
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464585#Comment_120464585

    Le sigh.

    Maninasia posted visa issuance numbers and said they are residence permits. Which is complete nonsense.

    Just take the number of Indians for both. The pps data prove that PPS issuances are at half the rate of visa issuances. I.e. he tried to overstate the amount of Indians moving to Ireland by a factor of 2.

    Once again, the Irish state issuing a visa is permission to enter the country only. For tourists, for people visiting family, for people attending events or conferences, and also for people who may need student permissions or an IRP for their work permit. He's bunging them all in together.

    And he's also bunging in EU nationals being issued PPS numbers.

    TL;DR He's talking utter pony.



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    #3894
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464609#Comment_120464609

    Over 300k PPS numbers issued.



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    #3895
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464633#Comment_120464633

    And?

    That's not 300k non EU immigrants.



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    #3896
    BoxcarWilliam99
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464654#Comment_120464654

    It doesn't have to be non EU.

    It's a massive number of people for 1 year into a small country.

    Unnecessary



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    #3897
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Not all PPS numbers issued are for immigrants.

    Howver it's clear there have been a huge uptick in legal immigration.



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    #3898
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,131 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    A reminder

    This thread is about refugees not people who migrate to Ireland for other reasons

    Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread



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    #3899
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463380#Comment_120463380

    You are literally pulling figures out of nowhere and mixing up figures for different things and claiming they are the same thing.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3900
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463506#Comment_120463506

    You claimed figures are things they are not.

    The article you posted didnt prove your claim.

    You are now trying to change your claim to suit the figures because they were nonsense.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3901
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,466 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I suggested here yesterday that those heavily critical of refugee policy appear to be conflating our strong net immigration (the so called 'legal' immigration) with the much more modest numbers of refugee arrivals. I've seen stats that for every ten people who move to the state in any given year, only one of them is an asylum seeker or refugee.

    *The arrival of Ukrainian people in the last 12 months being the exception to this.



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