General British politics discussion thread

They didn’t have any such rights here before we joined the EU. Those “rights” existed when we were part of the U.K. but were never there post-independence.

Nor was it done to ensure that such rights are retained for Irish citizens living in GB (of which the estimate is that even now there may be up to 6 million, not half a million).

The rights of such citizens are and were covered under the EU Settlement Scheme (and I can tell you from personal experience that U.K. bureaucrats look to the EUSS by default and are largely completely clueless that Irish citizens are supposed to have other rights).

And coming up with cosy little side arrangements that undermine our relationship with our fellow EU citizens is not lessening damage for us but rather is doing so for the UK.

Again, they did not. There were no such rights for British citizens here. They have only been granted in the last couple of decades (long after 1973). Prior to the 80s and 90s, there was generally a lax attitude for anyone coming here from anywhere since people were typically emigrating not immigrating, but they were no such rights for British citizens - had there been such rights there would have been no reason to enter into any such agreements in recent decades.

There is also no evidence to back up an assertion that Irish citizens living in the U.K. would have lost rights. Those rights were already covered by UK law and no UK government ever announced an intention to review them much less repeal them. (nor indeed do the agreements guarantee them giving the UKs recent willing to breach international law).

And yes the deal do undermine our relationship with the other EU countries - do you really think they are too stupid to notice that we grant ardent Brexiters greater rights than we do to our fellow EU citizens (their citizens)? Or that we have tied ourselves up in knots to avoid dealing with the international land border on our island?

And your assumption that I am angry about this is laughable. It’s embarrassing that our politicians are acting as though we are still a dominion within the Empire but not something to get angry about.

And, lastly yes I can. We should prioritise our fellow EU citizens over U.K. ones and the rights of the former here should be greater than those of the latter who - as they voted for in their referendum - be treated as third country nationals with no greater or lesser rights than those of any other third country. And we should do now what we should have made crystal clear we would do during the referendum, namely, join Schengen and let the U.K. deal with the problems that Brexit caused, not spend our time trying to solve them for them.

The only one making assertions about anger or bringing the topic up is you. I am quite the opposite, so that’s just you projecting.

Schengen is an integral part of the EU Treaties and one that all EU countries, including us, have committed to. Stating that we would join Schengen if the U.K. left the EU is not a “nuclear threat” rather a simple, rational statement that we would see no reason to continue to opt out from an EU Treaty commitment should the U.K. leave. Why after all would any country committed to the EU be expected to prioritise a non-EU country over its fellow EU countries?

Go ahead, since you are so convinced you are “well informed” - and insist that anyone who disagrees with you must be having a rant - name one other EU country that opts out of Schengen and operates a comparable arrangement to the CTA with a non-EU/EEA country.

When you can do that, maybe you can actually debate the issues, rather than dismiss anyone who doesn’t agree with your view.

Yep. Just look at the parties who have been in charge of Italy the last few governments.

Not a peep of Itexit from these former anti EU populists.

Le Pen keeping her trap firmly shut on the issue now too. As she has when it comes to her love of Putin and Orban.

It even made Sinn Fein pro EU all of a sudden.

This isn't correct. UK citizens have long enjoyed rights in IRL similar to the rights enjoyed by IRL citizens in UK (with the principal exception of voting rights, which were only extended in 1985). This wasn't because of a "lax attitude"; there were explicit agreements between the UK and IRL governments on the point, implemented where necessary by legislation. For example, when Ireland enacted the Aliens Act 1935, imposing entry restrictions, registration requirements, etc on non-citizens, the simultaneous Aliens (Exemption) Order 1935 was made providing that these measures did not apply to UK citizens.

Definitely nothing to do with Brexit.

Rees-Mogg said the benefits would take 50 years. Just in time for my funeral if I live as long as my grandparents did..

I suspect the UK will rejoin the Common Market in all but name, most likley in the second term of a Labour-lead government.

Grim....and still going ahead as a candidate

Unemployment was much higher in the EU than in the UK before Brexit too.

You cannot claim the very high unemployment in the EU (compared to the UK and the rest of the G7 etc ) as anything to be proud of.

GDP took a hammering everywhere in 2021 because of the pandemic. However in 2022 GDP growth was higher in the UK than in the EU. At least you accept that. Listening to some people you would think the UK was in a much worse state than the EU. No word about all the thousands of refugees literally risking their lives fleeing the EU in rubber dinghies in bad weather in to the UK? If the EU was that great, they would not want to or have to?

"small boat arrivals"  : In total, 45,755 migrants crossed the Channel from EU to UK last year. Some drowned etc they were so desperate to get to the UK from the EU. That is in addition to thousands who smuggled / stowed away on lorries on car ferries, ships etc.

Illegial migration from the EU in to the UK is so bad that the UK has agreed to give France stg £500m over three years which will go towards more patrol officers etc.