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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Perhaps but he was an Irish international when he signed this deal (during last season's 6N) and his stock was very much on the increase despite only having had one test start. He had come off the bench earlier in the tournament and played excellently against France for about an hour. I'd say he's on north of €200k (totally guessing) but it does underline the fact that many people form their opinions based on current market values and not what these guys are actually being paid in their contracts. Porter and Sheehan could both command serious money if at the table now.

    You have to give credit to the IRFU when it comes to their planning. It's no coincidence that Furlong's current deal ends in 2025 (he turns 33 later that year) when Andrew Porter's deal will be ending at his peak age of 29.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Ah the bitterness, if that sort of crap was posted in the Munster thread the mods would swoop in to protect their safe space.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I'd love to see how the negotiations actually go.

    Imagine Sheehan, through keen talent recognition, timing, his own incredible physique, talent and hard work gets capped and then comes up for a renewal.

    Leinster have to give him something in recognition of his ability, what he brings to the team and the fact he'd be in demand.

    Sheehan would have to have a concrete offer from a club who could afford a significant increase, didn't already have international class hookers, and a free space for him. There's no viable option besides France (other provinces can't outbid him, the English clubs are penniless as they're at pains to repeat). There's incredible depth of talent at hooker in France with all the top teams having at least one top-end player. Realistically he would have to find a lower top 14 club with a big budget, free JIFF slot, he'd have to be prepared to give up on international rugby having just made a breakthrough, pretty much abandon hopes of winning any trophies, be prepared to play 30 club games a season and move abroad, learn a new language, work with coaches who have a completely different way of doing things... all that might be enticing to a lot of players but you'd have to do a good job of convincing the IRFU you were one of them and hope they don't call your bluff.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Mod: This is baiting / trolling. Engage more constructively.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,205 ✭✭✭crisco10


    The highest profile player to call the IRFU's bluff was Sexton, and he has recently said he basically regrets it. This no doubt will make that particular game of poker a lot harder for the players. I think it would take a lot more than being spotted walking around Biarritz (ala O'Driscoll) to convince the IRFU that you are serious about moving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the constraint on any of the provinces is the level and quantity of player they can produce rather than budget (though obviously there isn't an infinite budget). If you can bring through a team of XV homegrown internationals the budget will flex to meet that. This isn't unique to Leinster, if Munster could do it they'd they the budget for it, as they have in the past.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Gordon D'Arcy wrote a piece on it a few years ago and how the IRFU can heavily leverage the personal situations on players to lowball their contracts for less than what they'll get elsewhere, knowing they're unlikely to pull the trigger and step out from under the IRFU umbrella.

    When he was still first choice for Ireland in 2010 (having won the GS, HEC and gone to SA as a Lions replacement the previous year), he signed "a plummeting spectacularly contract" and his last one a few years later which had "another significant drop". He said that he entertained an offer from France and used it as a bargaining tool at the time of that plummeting contract offer but the IRFU weren't to be moved and were happy to call his bluff and, ultimately, he didn't want to leave so took what was on offer.

    Whilst the figures have changed, I doubt the negotiating approach has. I would say the IRFU money men rub their hands with glee when they hear a big name is engaged or their partner is pregnant. It's an anchor and a bargaining chip which has fallen into their lap.

    Ian Keatley spoke about his partner being pregnant a few years ago when Erasmus was coach. He deliberately had to keep it quiet until he signed his contract. Once he did, he told colleagues about the impending arrival. Keatley said that Erasmus gave him a very strange look after he asked how long into the pregnancy Keatley's partner was, realising that Keatley must have long known (it was about 14 weeks at that stage) and kept it quiet deliberately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭durthacht


    In fairness, I think Sexton said that he regrets that he could not be a one-club player, not that he regrets rejecting the IRFU offer.

    It was reported (maybe in his book or else from his agent) that he had offers of €650,000 from France, and would have accepted the €400,000 that the IRFU paid their senior players like O'Driscoll and Heaslip. But the IRFU offered him only a marginal increase on his then salary to €150,000. He tried to renegotiate as he wanted to stay in Ireland, but they barely moved, so he left.

    I think Sexton regrets that the IRFU did not make him a credible offer at the time.

    The IRFU seem to have become much more professional in their negotiations since then and they seem to have learned a lot from how badly they messed up the Sexton deal.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was a compounding error also. Leinster's form dipped more than it should have in his absence and because he was so important to Ireland they had to keep picking him which meant that other players (Zebo being an example) had a precedent to point to when the IRFU refused to pick them.

    It's another of the many ways Sexton has improved Irish rugby albeit in this instance indirectly. Calling their bluff clearly resulted in a serious rethink around player engagement that I've no doubt has led to the retention in some instance of players that would likely would have left otherwise.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    The IRFU seem to have become much more professional in their negotiations since then and they seem to have learned a lot from how badly they messed up the Sexton deal.

    This is the key point and largely comes down to the appointment of David Nucifora.

    Prior to his appointment Eddie Wigglesworth (he himself a product of the amateur era) handled all negotiations as essentially a mediator between the player and a committee. His role was the overly broad one of "Director of Rugby"

    This was the same committee that the likes of Declan Kidney and Eddie O'Sullivan had to justify their international selections to on a granular level. It was a demand of Schmidt prior to taking the Ireland job that he wasn't going to have that committee led interference.

    Nucifora came in to be essentially the sole contact for contract negotiations and high performance coaching coming from actual high performance environments and also without any knowledge or care to "the old ways" or "traditions" that the committee model was stuck in at a huge risk of letting the pro game pass them by.

    I was at a function where Joe (still Leinster coach at the time) spoke and it was just after the news of Johnny leaving broke. Joe was extremely critical of the IRFU for allowing it to happen. Literally said in black and white "this should not have happened". It was clear he had little time for the committee interference that was going on behind the scenes. And that little time didn't really change during his tenure as head coach.

    Sexton leaving really was the catalyst for major changes in the IRFU including splitting High Performance department from the clutches of a blazer led committee.

    And credit to Nucifora, in the 10 years since Sextons departure to Racing he is by far and away the highest profile player to have left Ireland.... and we managed to still get him back



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,172 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Great post.

    But don't let Awec see it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thought Furlong has been slow getting up to match fitness but looked back to his best against Leicester.

    Is it just me however or in the gif below did he daze himself in that accidental head contact going by the maul? Looks momentarily off balance. Wonder how often this sort of thing is going unnoticed in every game.

    Happens at the start of this clip:




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Any idea what coaching ticket went to South Africa? Is it Leo, SOB, Goodman etc with just Lancaster remaining behind (similar to last year) or something different?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    I think it's a bit of a stretch to say he was dazed there.

    It was a pretty low impact head clatter. Certainly one he would have felt but I can't imagine too much

    To me his arm is up here as he's calling pillar. But the few steps he takes back seem to be so he can readily react to either side that Leicester decide to break on. Leinster had burnt a few players on the ground with only JGP defending the open side. You can see he's on strings with Conan here and moves straight to open side once Conan gets in the line.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    If I'm not mistaken Aaron Dundon went last year and has been with the senior squad for a few games this year. I suspect it was similar.

    I think Lancaster, Felipe, McBryde and an Analyst stayed back last year with Leo, Leamy, Dundon and Emmet Farrell going to South Africa.

    Probably similar this season obviously with SOB and Goodman replacing Leamy and Felipe.

    I think Trevor Hogan has been in and around with the seniors too



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I suppose its helpful having the Ireland U20 forwards coach as a player development officer.

    He can be drafted in to fill out the coaching ticket when needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,040 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    There are a decent amount of good lower tier tickets back available now. Could pick a pair up and refund your other pair within 24 hours of purchase?



  • Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Joe Biden just thanked (presumably) Rob Kearney for his IRFU tie saying "he was a great rugby player who beat the Black & Tans" in Soldier Field.



  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭newholland mad


    Same situation here, got 3 crappie enough tickets half way up the top tier at 10am this morning and now seeing much better one's on the lower tier on the 10m line and the really sickening part is they are the same price. Would refund or the exchange be the better option. It's not just to get better seats, one ticket is for our 11yo and she was never on the top tier and she's getting cold feet over the height



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I bought new tickets and cancelled the others. You have 24 hours from purchase. Some details from a poster a few posts back.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He actually did the absolute mad lad. And the way he said it "He beat the hell out of the black and tans" whilst giving a clenched fist was hilarious. Honestly - I know he is prone to gaffes but I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was intentional. Gas stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,040 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Just go for the refund. If its within 24 hours you're good. An exchange would just an extra few steps and could complicate it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,172 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,642 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    No contract for Liam Turner.

    no contract???

    😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I had my doubts about his size but he had really come on leaps and bounds since ROL left.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Ditto. When he started doing more with the sevens I thought his days were numbered.

    He's had a very good breakout season in TOBs absence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    More tickets just released.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,172 ✭✭✭✭Clegg




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Delighted to hear this.

    He's one of my absolute favourite Leinster players, and I think the positive development and improvements in his game since his original signing are really noteworthy. I think he's integral to the way Ireland and Leinster play when we're at our best.



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