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General Star Trek thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,901 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Leave You Tube alone. You-Tube is full of many great videos too.


    any more than I want to hear someone tell me men are women.

    But some men are Women and some Women are Men.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,392 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I laughed waaaaay way too much at this..


    Why LaForge was transfered to Engineering.

    All Eyes On Rafah



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,729 ✭✭✭Bobtheman




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,974 ✭✭✭✭Stark




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,272 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    There's plenty of good material, there's also a disproportionate amount of clickbait and Outrage Industry crap. And the creators I have been following decamped (albeit keeping their stuff on YouTube) to Nebula, which has been a great, economical little service. But I really have to prune and maintain my watch history to stop YouTube sending me down some seriously toxic, tedious avenues like that Dave Cullen whingebag or, worse, the likes of Jordan Peterson one time. The launchpad usually being any vaguely popular pop culture entity.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,729 ✭✭✭Bobtheman




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid



    No offence taken, and I agree with you on Discovery - they had a half-decent premise and some interesting characters, but ruined it by ignoring canon ("Hey, Michael, how come you never mention your other Vulcan brother?"), terrible direction ("Oh, Michael's being all breathy and earnest again? I guess she'll save the ship/solar system/galaxy in the next 5 minutes, so"), ignoring the good or potentially good characters they created (if I can't name all of the bridge crew two seasons in, then you're concentrating too much on too few characters) and changing the show's complete direction at least twice. It's just a bad show. In my opinion.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,272 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    What Discovery displays is symptomatic of what happens when you write stories ruled by a the desire for cool, trailer suitable moments. Or indeed, let people singularly unqualified for sci-fi run a sci-fi show.

    There's nothing inherently wrong with the whole "Michael saves the universe through crying", if the writing handled it well, if competency ensured the character was engaging, the dramatic moments earned and organic. After all, The Most Competent (Wo)man is a fairly well worn trope; it can work. It can be entertaining.

    But to no real surprise, a writer and producer for a CW vampire show was not the person to lead a science heavy, character driven universe - or even hit the low bar of a show about a super competent Number 1 who saves the world before breakfast. Michelle Paradise was a terrible fit, and I can't fully blame Sonequa Martin-Green for trying to work with over emotive, melodramatic pap.

    The writing was always the scripting equivalent of one of those superficial, cod philosophical "Good Ally" Instagram posts: shallow, obnoxious and utterly without merit.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'll be honest here. I got massive worries about Martin-Greene's ability during her last episode of Walking Dead and, from Discovery Ep01, it was justified.

    That still didn't sink the show. Writing, direction, story path, and many others were the letdown.


    Abd yeah I don't like being preached to. Having moral meanings in a story are great and a fantastic way to present unthought sides of an argument but it did feel like cause of the week rammed down my throat.

    Trek should always push social boundaries but Discovery showrunners had nowhere near the skill to do this competently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,729 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I now after reading your views agree it was probably to tick boxes rather than to push an agenda with the PC stuff.

    Ultimately bad writing is the culprit

    SNW and Picard season 3 just about rescued a franchise about to totally disintegrate.

    However here is hoping they don't clutch defeat from the Jaws of victory.

    I do actually love Michelle Yeoh and think section 31 will work.

    Star fleet academy - nah but let's see

    Social boundaries should be pushed but it's a delicate thing as you say. Done badly it's preaching and we have enough virtue signalling as it is.

    Would be better if trek covered more economic inequality rather than identity politics

    Post edited by Bobtheman on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Martin-Greene did get picked on quiet a bit but that doesn't take from the fact she was a fairly average actor to try carry a show with.

    If your gonna make a show where comparisons will be made to Avery Brooks and Patrick Stewart you would want to be aiming big.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,272 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Problem here is, we don't know for sure Martin-Greene was ever meant to carry the show, what with the general confusion and chaos that informed Season 1; seemed more like she was lead yes, but second-fiddle to Captain Lorca at the start. Someone who'd float about, always present in the plot but not ostensibly a lead. I'd say had they just written her as a "normal" captain of decency and competence from the get-go - with none of the crying and over-emotionality - she'd have done fine. No more offensive a performance than Scott Bakula ever was.

    Avery Brooks is a funny example; because by normal metrics I'd never have called him a "good actor" as such, but he made up for it with an energy and charisma that was way off on another planet. Everyone else was acting, Brooks was just riffing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I haven't seen anywhere that Lorca was supposed to be the lead but in terms of actors Issacs would be up there with the best Trek has had.

    It is true that she would only have been lead for one season though under the anthology plot.

    Interesting fact about Brooks is one of his acting credits is Roots: The Gift staring LeVar Burton and also featuring Tim Russ and Kate Mulgrew



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,272 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Just speculation on my part, given how I (vaguely) recall that initial 3/4s of Season 1 before the Alt-Universe twist.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,272 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Presented without comment; remarkably ear-wormy.




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,974 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I've a feeling the alt universe twist was always planned given how unlikely it would be that they'd sign up as high profile an actress as Michelle Yeah only to make her a plot sacrifice in the first episode.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    They said it was planned but I think came earlier in the original story.

    Michael was always the protagonist but I think written first as a man and the name was kept as a joke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,974 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    It was a Bryan Fuller quirk to give his female characters male names. Did it for a couple of other shows as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Your right. I was corrected on that before but forgot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Yeah, the big thing with Disco was it was going to be the first ST show where the main protagonist was specifically not going to be the captain. An idea that definitely has merit, as shown by Lower Decks. Just a shame the show was let down by terrible writing, plotting, pacing and the decision that only Michael could save the team/ship/world/galaxy which persisted until I stopped watching.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It was on a hiding to nothing with that premise when you think about it.

    You just can't have a show where the lower decker is the hero. It makes no sense that Lt. McEverybody keeps saving the day. It has to be the captain and senior staff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭eadrom



    The interesting thing about the premise was (or should have been) that they wouldn’t be saving the day every episode.

    What would it be like for a Lt. McEverybody serving on a starship while exciting things were happening all around them.

    Instead we got a Lt. McSavestheday-Everyday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Doesn't sound very exciting to have a show about someone watching other people save the day either.

    Unless you do it for laughs like Lower Decks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Every cop show ever is usually centred around "the lower decks", rather than Police Captain Holt's equivalent, and their politicking with the mayor's office and Internal Affairs. Most war films are about the privates and corporals, up to company commander, not the major in charge of a regiment.

    Yep, you'll be telling a slightly different story, but writers are hired for their imagination.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,272 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I think with Lower Decks, what it had was, I suspect, way more creative freedom to tell a story from the bottom rung. Cartoons tend to get a longer leash IMO. IIRC Discovery has to be the headline show for a whole new streaming service. While having more executive eyeballs, probably putting more opinions in about what the show has to be. I never got a sense of what Diaco wanted to be, even after it found its premise; Lower Decks was locked in after one episode (even if the characters themselves were rough and needed work. Step forward Mariner).



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ya true.

    I suppose I was thinking of the kind of galaxy ending shte we have been getting but you could easily have a Siege of AR-558 style team or a show about a Bashir type doctor.

    What that needs though (other than mature storytelling) is to be taken off ship. Lowly soldiers and renegade cops have the freedom to do their own thing behind the bosses back in an open environment.

    They can't just walk in and press the torpedo button and get away with it like Burnham sorta did. Confines of a ship don't allow that kind of story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,769 ✭✭✭Evade


    War films or series about ships are the exception though almost always following the captains perspective because of the difference in scale. The smallest fighting unit on the ground is considered to be a two man team IIRC while the smallest in a navy, air wing excluded is a ship.



  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭eadrom


    That's why it could have been interesting though. Make it not a story about "the ship" or a war or a battle. Just let "Star Trek" be the place. There are families on starships and people live their lives there for years at a time. It's not all regiments and orders and fighting units.

    I remember thinking that's what Discovery would be. I'd still like to see it. What life is like when a starship is your home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,769 ✭✭✭Evade


    A couple of stories like that could be cool but I don't see it supporting a series.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I think that's why they chickened out of doing the anthology thing for Discovery.



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