Russia - threadbanned users in OP

So now, after tremendous loss of life and equipment, they're discovering that taking the area's they currently hold, and actually holding them are two completely different things, and they will continue to pay massively for Bakhmut.

Ah, but he looked really cool in front of his 12 yo Minecraft mates for a while. Not, I suspect, dealing with a major intellect here.

I had to sign the Official Secrets act when I was in the RAF, and it was made very clear how serious the penalties were for breaking it.

Don't believe ya. Show us some proof

Sure look….

Historical footage of the launch of the two Ukrainian made Neptune anti ship missiles that sunk the Moskva.

(That link contains another to an in depth article about the sinking thet is well worth a read.)

Had Ukraine not had these up it's sleeve, I think the course of the war could have been very different, with possibly a naval assault on Odesa. These have kept the Orc fleet well away, thankfully.

Sure they do, and for good measure booby trap the hell out of them as well. The thing is that now any Russian controlled area is a free-fire zone, and the UA can bomb the hell out of it, no need to watch out for Ukrainian presence. For the Russian survivors of the assaults on Bakhmut to take it, their real hell is about to commence.

Shame the west can't help Ukraine mass produce these. Hard to believe there was a slight chance that there was going to be a mass amphibious assault on Odessa.

Is this Leo Varadkar???

Another ship the Ukrainians put out of commission was an amphibious landing ship, so they did make efforts to prevent the scenario, which was very real.

Here's looking at you, Kid...

It was suggested that the revelation of Ukrainian supply tunnels to the rear (along with the sudden change in weather) disincentivised the encirclement attempt but I think Wagners could have been near culmination at that point anyway as they were attacking a front of 90 km in length.

All of the above no doubt played a role but the fact is Wagners are no longer noted to be predominantly present on the flanks around Bakhmut and in the last week more and more conventional Russian and special forces are being noted to be taking part in many of the assaults within the city.

In terms of attrition I don't think we'll hear as much out of Wagner after the battle for Bakhmut concludes. So, why did Ukraine continue to hold the city? I think it's starting to become evident.

But after Bakhmut as Francie says, can Ukraine then punch back? There will certainly be a counter offensive I believe, and they will try it at some point in 2023 . But they have to be seen to be successful so are understandably waiting until as close to perfect conditions as far as they see them. I remember how Ukraine were always "only 15 miles from Kherson airport" for what turned out to be months and the level of impatience that was being voiced at a perceived lack of progress. They want to be sure they are going to inflict sufficient damage or make gains to justify the swing in losses that occur when moving from a defensive posture to an offensive one. Can only imagine the amount of planning and scenarios being worked out.