Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

If an honest discussion on nitrates was given by Teagasc and government bodies even to the EPA then the derogation wouldn't go.

By this I mean how nitrates really end up in groundwater and waterways. The whole truth.

Reasons how it happens : The one that everyone thinks of manure and slurry is how it can enter waterways. Same for human sewage. It's how it's spread and how the ground is and if there's plant cover and conditions to take it up.

Other reasons that people don't consider but are the single most important is the soil itself. If the soil has been ploughed. Any nitrate spread or natural nitrate from soil life is now free to move. The plant life and roots are gone in this time, the glue that held the soil together in this time is gone and nutrients wash through. The leachable ones that is, N, P, B, S. The air gets into the soil and bacteria consume carbon that otherwise was unavailable that held onto those nutrients. This happened in the drought of 2018. Nitrate levels went up. Because plants were compromised, air went into the soil got to the carbon and bacteria went into overdrive consuming the carbon. N leached when rains came.

Now what does this all mean for agriculture in Ireland?

Straight off cultivation is going to have an effect. This is at odds with the rhetoric from government bodies, teagasc, epa from what they are looking for.

So maize growing, to turnips, veg, potatoes, cereals, etc have a serious effect.

So that's increased veg growing to maize growing for anaerobic digestion all going to increase nitrate release.

Our environmentalists know this but just the same way they view rice production as a price worth paying re methane. They are willing to say nothing on the issue as it's viewed a result worth taking. Why? Because they want to court the view at the moment of it's all the cows and nothing else to get those numbers down. Get numbers on spreadsheets. Increase and promote anaerobic digestion and growing land for this purpose. If they come now and say turning a spade on soil releases nitrate. It muddies the water from the black/white view that is currently being screamed across the media to influence everyone. It confuses people.

Nitrate release on tilled ground of 7 to 10mg/litre.

On pasture 4 to 5mg.

All grand of you’ve loads of land

Looks like the days are numbered for the lads letting out land tax free. I'd say it's no harm myself but it will effect the land rental market. All that tax free money was always too good to be true.

It was on the ifj podcast today. Was brought in to make land available for young farmers originally. Costing dept of finance a lot of money now. Will cut land supply for sure.

Might cut out investors too. The property market is better off not being meddled with in general imo.

That would definitely be a good thing to make it less attractive, interest rates rising would help on that front also with positive returns on cash possibly coming too

Eejits is right. A developer was buying land boundsing me a few years ago. I was interested in part of it and he said no. He'd buy it all and rent it out to me tax free. No way I said. I don't pay rent.

The above argument only stacks up if milk is up in the high 40's and grain in the 300's, present day bar operations on owned lad with little debt will be farming at breakeven our in most cases a considerable loss for 2023, unless banks start doling out loans to finance the ridiculous rents been paid the market will level of again

I agree kg .it's something that sickens my hoop to be listening to. But the white gold shite comes from the same papers/social media that are lining us up for drawing and quartering on price cuts at the minute.......these people hear all the different details but they will choose to ignore it unless farmers press it home. I've encountered a few lately withe the white gold guff but when I reply with the savage cuts we've got and more to come,they are all well aware of what is happening

If a well funded dairy exit/reduction scheme does in-fact come into play next year, i reckon alot of co-ops and the white gold brigade will be scratching their heads with how many farms will go for it, of course the bigger units borrowed to the hilt will stay out of it, but theirs a large base of suppliers the wrong side of 60 who will pull the pin, especially if milk dips into 30's as is been muted now, it will be equivalent our worse than 2016, looking back this morning we averaged 29 cent for the year, if you take into account fertilizer was circa 230 can 18:6:12 350, good quality 16% nut was 255....

Both combined where circa costing 11 cent a litre, present day with fertilizer at current prices blended in with dear autumn stuff, and a good quality 16% at 430 euro, both combined for 2023 will be over 20 cent a litre, if you where to factor in increased machinery/diseal/electric/ contractor/detergent costs etc it's not good viewing when worked out on paper

And the sad part is feed and fertilizer and electricity have come away down in the rest of the world. Good old rip off Ireland.

60 euro difference for a identical 18% nut from a local Miller versus the crowd I'm with, with my crowd having more price drops come may, other crowd not a hope for the foreseeable, Local crowd has sheds full of dear barley so very reluctant to move prices

Id say the changes if and when then come will only apply to leases after that date, they couldnt apply it to existing leases retrospetively,

It would be better to only allow people who had previously farmed to avail of it and not people who simply bought land to lease it out.

Have you tried online

Weather finally with us thankfully

maize ground dunged and Slurried yesterday and today, ploughed Monday hopefully

whole crop going in next week

just another 60 k gallons to draw up the road Monday and Tuesday to ground we take for one cut of silage

nice to be back out in the fields