Report of the Independent Review Group of the Defence Forces

getoutadodge · 12-04-2023 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470523#Comment_120470523

Once a precedent (negligence) was set in the hearing damage case years back...everyone piled in to get their cut of compo. All that was required was evidence of material damage to hearing ability certified by a medical expert. Millions paid out. This.. involving as it will criminal cases is far far more serious...will be more protracted...all requiring individual cases...solicitors and counsels all over it. Rape cases ..real or imagined will pile up. Bullying cases... real or imagined will pile up. Old grudges....real or imagined to be settled. Wait for the words "independent tribunal" to pop up. Every man, woman or whatever for themselves as cases come before the courts. Hundreds of witnesses compelled under oath to testify. Can such a small organisation survive such an implosion?

Larbre34 · 12-04-2023 9:02pm

How can it not?

The organisation you are talking about isn't the Defence Forces, its the State. The DF won't defend the actions, the State will. The DF won't pay the restitution, the State will.

The RUC was untenable, so they changed the cap badge, the name, and a few policies. Same people, same HQ, same armoured Land Rovers. Smoke and mirrors.

The Defence Forces will get a shake up, as they were already getting anyway, but no sovereign State can endure without its armed forces, so they will continue. Some different people, some different policies, maybe a different culture, different rules; same Óglaigh na hÉireann, for as long as theres an Irish Republic.

Claw Hammer · 13-04-2023 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470642#Comment_120470642

There is no limitation on criminal cases. In civil cases the limitation period is 6 years for assault and 2 years for negligence which can be extended if the person claiming was under a disability caused by their offending conduct.

Larbre34 · 13-04-2023 6:02pm

Which is good to know, because if the DF and its community is to move forward and justice is to be served - and be seen to be served - , all the tables will have to be kicked over, all the dark corners illuminated with a harsh light and all the sacred cows slaughtered.

And I think that can only be done by an external criminal investigation.

Claw Hammer · 14-04-2023 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474130#Comment_120474130

A criminal investigation ism only one aspect t to the problem. A major issue is how this was allowed to start and remain concealed for so long. That has nothing to do with any criminal investigation but concerns organisational culture and structural issues. This raises questions for a number of entities involved or connected to this.

Claw Hammer · 14-04-2023 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476745#Comment_120476745

That misses my point. There is a "rank is right" attitude in the event of a complaint. There is a practice of appeals being invariably upheld when matters are taken further. There is a culture of contempt an disrespect permeating through the whole edifice. There are flaws in training and in promotion systems.

Manic Moran · 05-05-2023 2:05am

I’m not sure I would agree to that statement. I accept that there are different expectations of today’s soldiers, and that COs will be dealing with requests of absence for this, that and the other, but I don’t see that the military discipline structure inherently is a problem. For something like childcare, (or school exams or whatever) what is important is that the troop come up on the net with the problem ahead of time with the earliest possible notice, as opposed to just staying away. That doesn’t necessarily mean than an approval of a request for absence is the best solution. I had a troop request excusal from training some two weeks early due to a childcare problem, by doing so we were able to find an alternate solution that the child was acceptably cared for, and the troop attended her training. Had she simply just telephoned that morning saying “I’ve been trying for two weeks, can’t get child care, I can’t come in today”, then absolutely there would have been punitive actions.

Larbre34 · 05-05-2023 10:41pm

It's another good reason to return to family quarters on base, they become a ready made community that all understand each other's pattern of life and can support each other in circumstances like one partner going on tour or pulling anti-social shifts periodically.

Manic Moran · 06-05-2023 6:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557525#Comment_120557525

I still don’t see why that is a military justice issue. If those situations are you describe are the concern, it seems to be a leadership issue which lacks awareness of real-world soldier issues and the judiciousness/compassion to know when something is deserving of punitive proceedings vs accepting it as “life happens”.

The military justice system, after all, will presumably only start when a charge sheet is filed by someone.

sparky42 · 18-05-2023 6:01pm

A sad example that the DF isn’t alone with facing these issues:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/18/whistleblower-reports-ongoing-sexual-abuse-women-uk-military

Claw Hammer · 20-05-2023 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563272#Comment_120563272

I agree it is a leadership issue. As is pointed out in this situation, there was no compassion shown in dealing with the individual in question. That is why the cultural aspects of the problem must be resolved. A culture seems to have become ingrained in the DF since the promotion system changed some years ago of being insensitive to the needs of subordinates as to show sensitivity is seen as a sign of weakness, a quality which is not admired and those seeking promotion. A person with a genuine need or problem should be accommodated as far as possible, not told to go bugger.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41122048.html

Report of the Independent Review Group of the Defence Forces

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