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The eviction ban

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20 TenMoreMinutes


    The problem with the silver carrot is that when anyone talks about wanting to make terms better for small private landlords to keep them in the market, it immediately results in a horde of people screaming about how landlords should not have ownership rights because they made an investment in property and opted to supply a rental property for a period of time, so they should now have to do so indefinitely, which is absurd.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭carveone


    Thanks for the suggestions. You are right - it's not good enough to just ignore the possibilities. I showed my parents the CGT amount if they sold and suddenly they went from "ah sure" to "maybe a tax consultant is a good idea"!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Ah good to hear- an informed decision is the way to go. I’ve seen inheritances greatly reduced due to the neglect of simple tax and inheritance planning - if relations are good between interested parties and there’s just a small bit of planning things can work out so much better. Best of luck



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Lefty2Guns


    Hi All,

    Looking for some advice. Was on previously about renting my home out to take a position in Oz which has now gathered steam.

    If a tenant signs a 1 year lease and agrees to that, if we don't offer that tenant a second year lease and want to move back in where do we as the home owners sit within the actual law? The lease will be up so does the occupier have any rights?

    It's a joke that I have to even ask these questions.

    Any advice be greatly appreciated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭Rustyman101


    Leases only work for the tenant, not worth the paper they've written on for the landlord.

    Anyway after 6 months tenant as part 4 rights which supercede any lease agreement.

    Basically after 12 months lease if tenant doesn't move by there own account you have a potential problem on your hands.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You really need to learn the rules around this. If you think that first step is hassle don't rent.

    If you are going to rent a property after 6 month its automatically 6yr lease. By which point 2029 its likely they will have changed the rules again, and not in your favour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,667 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    After six months all lease's are considered to be leases of unlimited duration. Ya I. A years time when you come back you can look for vacant possession for your own use however if they over hold it will take 6-24 months to get possession. You have to give a minimum notice of 90 days for tenancies less than 6 months in duration, 152 days for 6-12 month tenancy and it keeps climbing to 224 days for tenancies of longer than 8 years.

    You be better off sitting down with an letting agency and getting the property exact situation with them. However technically as you will be abroad there is a withholdings tax on the income

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    IMO It's not worth it. Not if you plan moving back in at any point in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    This has changed now so that after 6 months its a 'forever' lease, not 6 years any more. You can still terminate it for your own use if you give correct notice. But as everyone is pointing out getting a tenant out even if you send the correct notice these days is not guaranteed, and if they refuse to leave you are looking at over 2 years to go through the process to get them out. And tenants with nowhere to go are being advised by many politicians to just stay put, even the taoiseach has recently stated in an interview that a judge would be very unlikely to put them out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Lefty2Guns


    Thanks for the detailed responses. However much that they are not favourable in my direction.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    You may end up never seeing the inside of the property again if you rent it out, no matter what lease you have. A lease can bind you but cannot bind a tenant so literally not worth the paper its written on.

    And if you think thats a funny old situation to be in heres another one.

    if the tenant decided that they liked you place and wanted to stay but didnt feel like paying rent, it would take you years and years to get iot back. All the time the tenant could even claim and be judged to get money off you if you dont keep the place up to standards while they arent paying you rent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Lefty2Guns


    Thanks. I can see why people go the AirBnB route. We'll explore other options but going to the rental market is off the cards based on the responses above.

    Some country we live in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The only other option is some cake taker arrangement. This can also go bad, if someone won't move out.

    If it only for a year or two I wouldn't bother.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    This is boards. The home of the shaggy dog tale, exaggerated anecdotes and of the completely uninformed on legal reality. I wouldn't make a descision on what I'll have for dinner based on comments here.

    The rents that landlords can command have never been higher. There is no such thing as a zero-risk economic acitivity but bear in mind the deductions against rent one can make for tax purposes to mitigate those risks. They are quite generous in absolute terms and relative to places like the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Maybe they just need to ask themselves if its so good why ware all the landlords quitting the business. its so bad that the government are trying to make all sorts of laws preventing them from quitting the business. If its right in front of your face and you can see it, its your eyes that are the problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    They're getting out because they're a glut of largely Celtic Tiger landlords out of negative equity, heading towards retirement and cashing-in on historically high house prices,

    There's also favourable CGT window for properties bought between 2011-2014 expiring soon. Don't believe me? Tax advisors are urging landlords to sell for this very reason:

    "The Residential Property Price Index in Ireland has grown from 76 in 2012 to 155.3 in November 2021. The statistics suggest that the average property bought between 2011 and 2014 may well have doubled in value.

    We wonder if that rate of growth can be sustained, or if investors might be better served cashing in their chips in the near future? Certainly, there is a tax benefit to a timely exit, and we would encourage all clients to review their property portfolio’s, with a particular focus on properties bought in that 2011 to 2014 window."

    https://hughestax.ie/2022/02/18/capital-gains-tax-the-perfect-storm-to-sell-property/

    The landlord whinge in Ireland is eternal and never ending. You could have the Government cutting cheques for them breathing and there'd still be a whinge. But there are reasons beyond the whinge that landlords are selling, and I've illustrated them quite well thanks very much - so you don't need worry about my eyesight.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    I think its more the tenants whinging than the landlords, they can't find anywhere to live.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    You are like Dev só ór a SF supporter Who is able to look into the heart of all landlords.

    I'm not denying that there is some truth in your analysis but until a detailed study is done you could be accussed of guess work or parroting the SF party line

    We do need to stop the exodus

    The evictions ban was a badly thought out idea and if this is a sign of what SF would do in government God help us.

    Legally dubious and poorly thought out policy initiatives



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    No ones listening. Eviction ban is gone. Let LLs leave. End of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    I don't think the landlords are whingeing, they are getting out and selling to the government and their tenants are getting cost rentals, it's win-win!

    And what's even better is that it is a textbook magic money tree solution, the government are finally listening to the opposition.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭dontmindme




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,550 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ..i suspect this is the reality, the whole system is completely fcuked for everyone, landlords are beyond exposed here, id only have someone i know very well in the property, making sure they know the full score, managing the whole thing from oz would probably be just too much, best of luck with it all op.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Someone tried this with their holiday home. Couldn't get the tenants out. Because they had no where else to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If you want to rent out a place you have to do it with a mindset is going to be permanent rented for a very long time..



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    That's also a terrible idea with rent controls if they bring in selling with tenants in situe which seems likely if things keep getting worse.

    Tenants won't ever want to leave if they have a rent controlled apartment, you'll be renting to their grand kids.

    The solution is what the institutional landlords do, have many properties, rent them to well off tenants likely to move/buy their own place within a few years and leave the apartments empty for 2 years on rotation across the portfolio every so often if inflation means the rents fall way behind market rents, to re-set the rent between tenants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,256 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I wouldn't do it. But all the signs are we will copy Europe but without the same protection for LS..



  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭dennis72


    We have made lls scapegoats for lack of social housing

    Expecting a diminishing supply subject to 50% tax that is not affordable to low income or unemployed, increases a risk of falling into arrears and then protecting with one-sided tenants regs leaving lls picking up the bill while some politicians and LA advise overholding

    Privately owned is not a social asset eventually its supply runs out thankfully the larger funds will manage this and partially keep some supply for our important FDI companies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    To keep private land lords in the market a new body for investigating and actioning disputes, non payment, breach of lease etc needs to be set up.

    The case against Non paying or breach of lease tenants should be investigated, decided and actioned on in weeks rather than months. 10 week turnaround with permanent consequences such as credit rating damage, deduction of welfare if applicable and court enforced fines for any damages etc.

    A proper system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭dennis72


    "A proper system"

    Sorry my friend no votes in that option



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20 TenMoreMinutes


    This right here is the dream. However, a properly resourced body to expedite dispute resolution will not be seen as a positive move for tenants by activist groups as they refuse to look more than a month into the future.

    A properly resourced body allows landlords to have more agency over their property, and as we have seen this is a critical motivating factor for LLs to stay in the market. But, a properly resourced body means tenants won't be able to get a few extra months in the LLs property by appealing NoTs with the backlog currently in the RTB, so opposition parties and activists will not go for it at all.

    Short-sighted housing activists don't care about crashing the market into the ground over the next 12-24 months, because they think it will further their goal of state-owned cost rental housing being the only solution if the situation gets worse. But an undersupplied sector with growing demand needs a consistent measure of investment to keep up, and everything they are calling for (eviction bans, advocating overholding, vilifying landlords) is detrimental to that investment.



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