Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

@323 made a claim. Surely it’s for them to back it up with a link to the report they read rather than everyone else look at Rip.ie that does not contain every death in the country.

Have you forgotten the rollouts in MVCs in Ireland? How are you going to try to spin financial incentives to that one?

Why would Anthem be so keen to promote covid vaccination? That's the question you forgot to ask.

Do you know who Anthem are? They are not a vaccine provider. They are a health insurer. They pick up the tab if you are sick and have cover with them. Their financial benefit in this case IS the general well-being of the general public.

Why would Anthem be paying for a service (covid vaccine) unless they thought it would lead to less claims, less hospitalisations, less of their members needing medicines and medical care???

In Ireland, for example, LAYA offer free flu vaccines to their large corporate clients. Paying for flu vaccine is cheaper for them than dealing with the claims from people sick from flu.

This really is a nothing story. Actually more than that, once again you are trying to spin a story against vaccines that actually spins the other way. Backfire again.

Anthem aren't a vaccine producer, and nowhere did I mention vaccine producers. I specifically referenced the entities picking up the tab - governments, hospitals, healthcare insurer providers. So your premise falls at the first hurdle.

You are sowing confusion by misrepresenting Anthem as a vaccine producer and then saying it was in the financial interests of producers. But Anthem are not a vaccine producer. Nor are the Irish government who paid for the MVCs and vaccine rollout here and pick up the tab for covid hospital care.

The comparitive figures for those needing medical care and hospitalisation for vaccinated versus unvaccinated from covid clearly shows why healthcare providers were keen to emphasise the benefits of vaccination. Vaccination has prevented countless hospitalisations (not to mention deaths).

The evidence for these figures has been cited on the thread multiple times - studies such as the Lancet Swedish study.

The vaccines reduced hospitalizations and deaths from Covid by up to 80% (depending on variant) A lot of people caught Covid and didn't die because of them. They also reduced transmission by varying degrees (depending on variant).

Your financial gain thing is appeal to motive. Vaccines cost money to research, develop and produce. Companies are getting revenue for producing vaccines that have saved a significant number of lives.

Can you explain how the Irish government or insurers such as Anthem made a profit from the vaccinations?

Your post makes no sense and is no explanation at all.

You repeated this accusation against Anthem until it had to be pointed out to you, you didn't understand their role. This is a just a re-hash of the same discredited accusation. You haven't even tried to explain a 'profit motive' for the decision to rollout vaccines yet continually repeat it.

You seem to present vaccine producers, governments, and media as one single entity with the same motive when this is without foundation. And simply wrong.

Your post contains multiple other pieces of medical misinformation and half truths.

There's a chasm of difference between "healthy" people and "people who are in such poor health that any minor virus could kill them" and it is utterly disingenuous to present it in those terms. We can see from the ICU and hospitalisation figures that many people ended up there who don't meet your deceptive definitions - but especially those older in age or with preconditions. This is a significant percentage of the adult population of the country.

Vaccination was recommended to age groups based on:

• The risks of covid exceeding the risks of vaccination (by a wide margin) to the person directly. So your argument that it was unnecessary is refuted on those grounds.
• Reduction in infections and transmission. Even if the vaccines didn't block infection 100% the evidence has been presented on the thread showing reduction of infections (and therefore transmission) of vaccinated people. And also vaccinated people being less infectious. This is important from a public health perspective.
• So governments looked at those figures and that is why they rolled out vaccines. Zero profit motive. A desire to protect the population and reduce demands on the health service. Entirely legitimate government concerns.

What we have seen to try to counter that evidence on the thread is attempts to judge 2021 decisions made on the basis of Pre-Omicron variants, unvaccinated population) with 2022 data (Omicron, mostly vaccinated population).

This is the study for health care professionals

And this is the UK ONS data which looks at covid related deaths and breaks it down by age and pre-conditions.

In 2020, 10% of UK deaths were in under 65s and of those 20% were without pre-conditions. Of those with pre-conditions, it does not support your contention about people "in such poor health". Many of the conditions are livable with for decades if managed with medications etc such as diabetes, blood pressure, COPD.

And those are the deaths only, if we were to look at figures for hospitalisations and ICU admissions, we could reasonably expect to see a similar or even larger proportion from these groups based on survivability profile.

In Ireland in 2020 for ICU covid admissions, the largest numbers were from age group 55-64.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/preexistingconditionsofpeoplewhodiedduetocovid19englandandwales