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Why is the British media unhappy with Biden's Irish visit?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,602 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    He didn’t take a single chance to put a foot on mainland Britain.

    All the way over here, this side of the Atlantic and the British PM gets summoned to over to Belfast for a quick hello and photo op…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭circular flexing




  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin


    Andrew Jackson was the most Irish President followed by Ronald Reagan. The Kennedy's were Wasp wannabes. Obama & Biden were and having a laugh over it as they are only a fraction Irish if at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,801 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Personally don't get how any Irish person could keep such a subscription following the cartoon during the week. At best you are funding that, at worst endorsing it.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    A fraction alright but a not insignificant 5/8 or 62.5% given that all of his maternal g-g-g-grandparents as well as two of his paternal g-g-g-grandparents are Irish.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    The UK conservative supporting press reaction is purely to try and make the UK look internationally important to it's own people. If they can convince their readers that there has been some major snub to the UK by Biden it will convince them that the UK remains a major player in global geopolitics and it's Biden that's the issue, not themselves.

    The reality, of course, is that Britain has thrown away its strategic position as a key link between the US and Europe. Therefore it is no longer of any use to either Europe or the US. Biden didn't snub them, they're just irrelevant to him now, so he dealt with them accordingly. A semi-polite 20 minute photo-op and he then moved on to more important matters. The same way he would deal with the President of Micronesia or wherever.

    All he wants from them is to work to maintain peace in the north, and they're not really even capable of that. So he made that point to Sunak and then there was little else to say. No doubt Sunak wants a trade deal or whatever, but he can forget about that, it won't be happening as the UK market is largely irrelevant to the US compared to the bigger guns like the EU.

    The bottom line is that the Brits backed the wrong horses in the last 10 years - Brexit and Trump. This is the price they must now pay as a result - complete irrelevance on the world stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,649 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    There has always been something deeply needy and misplaced in the narrative of "the special relationship" from the UK's point of view. As if they believed they had some additionally intimate connection with America other nations might yearn for. Whereas all it was amounted to a quicker rowing in with whatever geopolitical strategy America has; it was never an equitable partnership - except in the head of the incurably nostaglia within England.

    In some respects, the right adjacent press are right to be upset. This was an underline of soemthing they can't admit: brexit self destructed what remained of UK soft power and left them looking like scorned exes, incapable of understanding why what they assumed their Forever Love was traipsing about with a better, newer partner. But why don't they still love me?

    Mind you, it does seem like modern Republicans are more inclined towards the UK, and the rhetoric from DenSantis and the like seems like a cosy relationship with the EU wouldn't necessarily continue. Or indeed, Ireland, the north and Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,318 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Andrew Jackson was of Ulster Scots background, what we might call unionists today.

    A lot of pre famine Irish immigrants to the US were Ulster Scots

    Biden even made reference to them in his Ballina speech.

    Obama was definitely taking the piss as he only found out through genealogical research when he was running for president.

    The Kennedys as you said were WASP wannabes.

    Regan had a great grandfather born in Ireland, same as Biden, but was brought up in an evangelical household.

    And this is where Biden is different, not only is he Irish American by ancestry, he was also brought up in an Irish American household, an Irish American environment.

    Many Americans use the Irish American label as just that, a label.

    When people arrived during the famine it no longer mattered if you were from Cork or Galway or Kerry. What mattered was you were Irish and different from Germans, Italians, Polish etc.

    And that just passed down the generations and got watered down.

    But not in Biden's case, the link to Ireland was always strong.

    He wasn't trying to fit in with the elites like the Kennedys, his Irishness was not just a footnote like Regan, or completely unknown like Obama.

    And even though Michael Ring may have encouraged him to say "Mayo for Sam" he still knew what he was talking about.

    And this is what ultimately annoys some in the UK.

    He has a personal connection with this small nation that they always saw as inferior and happens to be getting in the way of delivering Brexit properly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Agree with this largely.

    It is also fascinating to see fun/derision being poked at Biden's Irish identity by those born in Ireland who would have a major hissy fit if you questioned/mocked/derided their British 'identity'.

    You are either free to assume an identity or you are not.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    That Niles Gardener is a preposterous idiot , he’s not indicative of any conservative opinion in the UK as his politics doesn’t really have much of a home in Britain



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin


    Andrew Jackson was Irish, called himself Irish Andy. Are you suggesting that Irish Protestants cannot be Irish?

    This is Bidens first ever visit to Ireland, never was bothered before, this is a political grift this visit.

    Reagand grandfather was Irish, his father was very Irish as he said. Reagan was a protestant through his mother but does that make hi less Irish because he was protestant.?

    Mayo for Sam thing was scripted as is all his talk in Ireland, the same with Kennedy on his visit according to Sean Lemass who observed him closely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,249 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This is far from bidens first visit to Ireland, he was here as a Senator and as VP



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,272 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    If conservative commentators in the UK are not indicative of conservative / Conservative opinion in the UK, then I'm surprised that Conservative party members and MPs and Lords and the newspapers and other media that they own / write for / board sit / sharehold in, don't instruct the Editors of those entities to retain contributors that DO more accurately reflect the pulse of the conservative thinker and voter.

    Short version? He does reflect a cohort of conservative opinion. That large cohort which is regressing all the time, harking after glory days that never actually existed.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,799 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Duke of Wellington (Wesley) who was born in Ireland said 'Just because you are born in a stable does not make you a horse'.

    Biden self asserts that he is Irish. That makes him Irish by any measure.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is no real indication he ever actually said that.

    Nonetheless, the point is correct. Biden has always considered himself an Irish-American and that's all that matters. Going back through his genealogy for English roots to somehow disprove this is utter stupidity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin


    It was actually who said that about Wellington after Wellington passed Catholic Emancipation



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,799 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Can it be proved that these 'English' roots are actually 'English' and not immigrants from elsewhere, perhaps from Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin




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  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin




  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin


    His ancestors were from Norfolk in England, he has French ancestors as well. Isn't it ironic that the most irish president was Andrew "irish andy" Jackson had a scottish name.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,318 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Ulster Scots tend to see themselves as British.

    If they see themselves in any way Irish it's in the context of Irish in the British nation. Just like a Scot that was a unionists would still refer to themselves as Scottish.

    This was his third visit to Ireland since 2016, and his third time in Mayo since 2016, but you have been put right on that already.

    And the Mayo For Sam line was indeed scripted, but Biden was fully aware what it referred to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What's 'ironic' about it?

    The most ardent anti Irish mouthpiece on Biden as wellas in everything else, is a 'Kelly' (Arlene)



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Gardner is more typical of a Washington Neo conservative hawk , there are very few of those in conservative British media circles, he was a key member of the heritage foundation think tank



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,272 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Ireland's fiercest and most strategic rebels and home ruler politicians were protestants.

    Religion has nothing to do with it anymore. Its a dispute now between the insular loyalist sink estates who follow Rangers and fly Union Flags and read Kelvin McKenzie in The S*n versus upwardly mobile educated nationalist Gen Z.



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin


    It was scripted ffs lol... Rob Kearney thing was pathetic to say the least.

    The scots-irish saw themselves as Irish before the Famine Irish came to America, they were at the forefront in fighting the British in the War of Independance, btw they still class themselves as Irish for the most part today.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I know what you're getting at but ultimately the proper answer is - it doesn't matter.

    Irish Americanism is not something you need to pass a genetic test to be able to claim. Nor is it obligatory to identify with any genetic heritage you may have. This is all a silly game - Biden is the most outwardly embracing of his Irishness.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin


    Still Catholic V Protestant in essence. though more sectarian on the protestant side in truth. It is screwed up but thats how it is...



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