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Why is the British media unhappy with Biden's Irish visit?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    What particular religion do you support for Ireland.

    If I remember correctly, I'm sure you will correct me, that not all Irish nationolists were Catholic?

    They were Irish. Full stop



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,958 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    RTÉ radio did a documentary about that visit

    Nixon did an unplanned stop in some town to meet & greet. A Secret Service member dropped his gun and it was picked up by a member of the crowd. The crowd probably not used to seeing guns (well I’ve never held a pistol anyway) passed it along among themselves. A Garda sergeant with a “ah heyor now, you’ve had your fun” attitude took the gun and handed it back to the US Secret Service. I’m sure the guy who lost his gun was sweating and believing he was about to be sacked. All good in the end 😁

    The documentary also mentioned the Quaker community in Ireland were divided about Nixon. Quakers are pacifists yet Nixon was sending bombers to South East Asia.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is nothing irrational about wanting to be liked, and certainly nothing irrational about using soft power to have an outsized influence in the world's biggest superpower.

    You're not looking for integrity, you're looking for aloofness. Its basically hipster politics.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin


    Far from hipster politics believe me lol

    Ireland does not have any influence in american politics in any shape or form, irish-americans yes through voting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ireland is influencing the US trade relationship with the UK. And boy do they know it. Not even Johnson was brave enough to mess with the GFA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Sweet jebus.

    That's not an influence?

    Can't wait for this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin


    The Irish powers that be in Ireland have no influence in American Politics only Irish-Americans. A bowl of shamrock and diddly daddly dancing is comic relief in truth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




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  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    There are also Scanlon, Roche, Boyle, Ward and Hannafy.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Piskin


    Roche & Boyle are Norman names and Ward is Old English.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,318 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Normans and Old English are the same thing.

    The Normans that invaded Ireland in the 12th century were referred to as Old English by the time the Elizabethan conquest came around in the 16th century and brought the New English.

    And both were different from the native Gaelic Irish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Ignacius


    They see no irony in the unionists calling themselves British after being settled here hundreds of years ago.

    They have never given up their Britishness. Why would Biden have to disavow his Irishness. 

    Whining POM’s is what the Aussies call the Brit’s and the ruling classes/ media are really living up to that.

    Post edited by Ignacius on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,318 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    They see no irony in the unionists calling themselves British after being settled here hundreds of years ago.

    Well given the fact that NI is still part of Britain/UK I really don't see an issue with people from there calling themselves British of they want to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭swampgas


    The British as a society, to an extent hard to understand from an Irish perspective, are obsessed with status and hierarchy. Where you live, who your family are, what car you drive, where you went to school, where you went to college, where you work, where you holiday, who you socialise with, how wealthy you are, whether you are old money or nouveau riche, and what accent you speak with, all of these are constantly being evaluated and assessed when the British interact with each other. Having a title, or a CBE or MBE or whatever, matters. Think of the value system of Pride and Prejudice and you're not far off. Everyone "knows their place", in the sense that they know where they are in the pecking order. Those at the top of the hierarchy are used to, and expect, a level of fawning deference far beyond what is normal in Ireland. These people, culturally, are not remotely egalitarian, and they are very sensitive to any challenge or snub to their exalted positions at the top of the heap. This carries over to the perceived status of their "kingdom", the UK. They are personally invested in it. So when a US President spends time with what they see as a country of inferior status, they can't help but see it as a snub. Lashing out at their perception of Biden's rudeness is curious too, in that they feel entitled to upbraid him for his temerity. They still feel that the US is one step away from being one of their (inferior) colonies, and so they can still be rebuked for not properly acknowledging their betters. It's absolutely laughable. (The same attitudes to status and hierarchy (IMO anyway) explain the constant clashes with and hatred of the institutions of the EU - culturally, they simply don't mesh.)

    Post edited by swampgas on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,649 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Nail on the head again….

    and it’s this very reason they wanted out of the EU…. even more so since the expansion when the likes of Poland, the Baltic states, Romania, Bulgaria etc joined…… they were sat at a table as equals with these nations who they clearly see as not just below them, but a few levels below them…. And it must have burned them up inside….



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I disagree. I've lived here for over a decade and I recognise none of this that I wouldn't see in other countries as well.

    The reason for the outrage is much more banal IMO. The media here is the least trusted in Europe and has spent decades gaslighting the population with lies and diversion tactics. This is just their latest schtick.

    The UK aggressively lobbied for the expansion of the EU in 2004 and 2007. Along with Ireland and Sweden, they were one of three countries to place no restrictions on immigration from the new member states.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,433 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Not dissimilar to Ireland tbh. People here worry about what the neighbours think, will I get a bigger SUV than the neighbours, if they have an accent from 'certain areas'.

    We may not have a very large upper class but there are haves and have nots. Working class/affluent middle class/'squeezed' middle class areas in towns and cities exist here too. Old boys/crony networks exist.

    Replace CBE/MBE with whatever GAA or rugby royalty you play/played for opens doors and that greases the way for you.

    You'd swear sometimes the way Irish people go on that we are some sort of egalitarian workers paradise, complete BS. People from one level of our society here readily piss down and pull ladders up on others.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭swampgas


    I've lived there for years myself, and have also interacted with some of those in the upper echelons both in the business world and in diplomatic circles. I have quite a few British friends who would agree with the bones of my analysis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭swampgas


    I don't disagree, every country has this to an extent, but the British have it at a whole other level (in my experience).

    The Fawlty Towers episode where a fake Lord something or other turns up and Basil is incredibly obsequeous is funny because it's true. The toadying to the monarchy and the whole charade of the Honours List is all part of it. It leaves Ireland in the ha'penny place.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It depends on who you're interacting with. If it's a lot of one percenters as you've hinted, then that's extremely likely. Most of my time is spent around students and working class people so I've never witnessed any of this.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Absolutely - it's just that I think the lunatics controlling a lot of the MSM in the Uk are very much part of the one percenters, or are trying to curry favour with them.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Sounds like more of a general class thing than a British thing. I expect I'd be subjected to similar if I was trying to climb the ladder of the Parisian branch of KPMG or the like.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't think its a "schtick" in the sense that they are putting it on, or writing it because they think it will drive attention or appeal to their readers though.

    I think the kind of column writer who has come to prominence in the UK media is exactly the kind of thin-skinned, jealousy driven child who would genuinely get upset about not being the centre of attention.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,799 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think Hyacinth Bucket (Boo kay) is a perfect parody of the oft encountered "schtick" you describe. Highly thought of in her own mind but despised by all around her.

    I think the vast majority of Irish take people as they find them, with no overt presumption of them.

    George Bernard Shaw noted “It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other Englishman hate or despise him,” in his preface to Pygmalion. They are born snobs, or become snobs, but some do have it thrust upon them - and few ever escape from it.

    Of course there are some in Irish society who ape that type of thing, but there you go - that is life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Anti Irish feeling is still strong among certain circles in England.


    Post edited by saabsaab on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,649 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    The UK aggressively lobbied for the expansion of the EU in 2004 and 2007

    but that was a Labour led U.K., and not the posh toff Tory party that took over in 2011. And then 5 years later Brexit happened.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The Tories backed it as they did most New Labour policies.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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