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General gaming discussion

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    #11312
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491384#Comment_120491384

    Spiderman, Horizon, God of War (although it makes a better stab at being a game than the rest), Days Gone (although that's more low budget SyFy special than HBO). I'd throw Ratchet and Clank in there as well.

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    #11313
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491307#Comment_120491307

    Don’t really think that’s accurate with regards Sony’s recent first party games. I’m lukewarm to cold on both Horizon and God of War Ragnarok, but there’s a lot - too much, arguably - gameplay in both. The best first party PS5 game of the generation so far - Returnal - is pure gameplay. Even Naughty Dog‘s most recent games have a lot more ‘game’ than they would have in the past.

    There’s a lot of things I’d criticise about Sony’s current approach, but having an askew cutscene:gameplay ratio isn’t one of them.



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    #11314
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    God of War is a bit more of a stretch because of how it integrates the camera into the gameplay but Horizon outside of the scripted Missions I'd find very hard to classify as gameplay as the open world is a chore in that. Spiderman is a better counter example as the open world is actually fun to move through but the missions are poor.

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    #11315
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,730 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The first Horizon game I couldn't finish, I just got bored after a while cause it was all very samey.

    The second one, turned out to be exactly the same. It was tedious. Didn't even come close to finishing it. I'd have to seriously slog it out to make progress.



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    #11316
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491481#Comment_120491481

    I think you’re conflating a couple of different criticisms here. I don’t like the Horizon open world stuff either, but it’s pretty unambiguously gameplay - it’s the particular game design decisions that I wasn’t fond of. It has little to do with the story or cutscenes.

    Again, I’d have plenty of criticisms of the gameplay and narrative approach in that game and God of War - but I don’t think ‘there are too many cutscenes relative to gameplay’ would be representative of either game, even if there is plenty of narrative in both.



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    #11317
    quokula
    Registered Users Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭quokula


    I mean, you can not like Horizon, but how you can claim this is "not gameplay" I have no idea. It's hard to think of an open world game that has more opportunities for varied unscripted gameplay in it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd9MqLR1DuQ




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    #11318
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491619#Comment_120491619

    The fact Zelda and then Elden Ring stole Horizon's thunder for both games kind of answers that question.

    Also that's a jpg, not gameplay.

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    #11319
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,579 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491670#Comment_120491670

    That's a video of gameplay, not a jpg.

    I enjoyed the story, characters and world-building of the first Horizon game. The second went for bigger rather than better and really suffered for it. But gameplay wise, although there's a lot of open-world fluff in both games, the core gameplay and design in both games is a joy to play. It can be frustrating at times, but also exhilarating and just a lot of fun. There's ample room for different strategies and tactics, and different enemies require you to change things up. It's far less about exploration and experimentation like BOTW or Elden Ring and is instead more about busiwork and just side missions for different combat scenarios, but I don't think anyone expects anything different from Horizon anyway.

    Horizon definitely suffered both times by coming out at the same time as a GOTY, especially ones which properly build upon what an open-world game can (and arguably should) be. But I think it's also reductive to just judge the Horizon games based on the other games that came out at the same time, or its narrative faults. There's as much room and need for open world games like Horizon as there is for Zelda BOTW or Elden Ring.



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    #11320
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I didn't see the video icon :D

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    #11321
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Think this is getting dragged way off topic of my original point. These Sony level games that are compromised in some ways to appeal to the widest market get outsold by games that put gameplay, mechanics first and don't compromise their vision.

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    #11322
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491892#Comment_120491892

    Apologies, I dragged Sony into it. Or did I? I'm too lazy to go back and check 😅



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    #11323
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Delete...



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    #11324
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,844 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Horizon has to work for the person who gets 1 hour a week and the person who plays 5 hours a day. You can pretty much pick it up at any point and start playing.

    Elden ring doesn't do that. It caters for the person who has time to invest in all the exploring, learning, and discovery it offers.

    I've lost count of the amount of times I've gotten half way through a game, taken a break for a few weeks and come back only to have forgotten all the buttons, the special moves, the enemies are over powered and I end up just restarting.

    It's not that one is better than the other. They are doing two different things.



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    #11325
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491978#Comment_120491978

    No worries. It's been pretty civil. Just sick going over the talking point about Sony games and I realise they just aren't really for me or a bit disappointing but doesn't stop others enjoying them.

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    #11326
    SuperBowserWorld
    Registered Users Posts: 6,912 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492052#Comment_120492052

    I've a ton of open world games I've gotten cheaply, but don't have the time to commit to them. Maybe when I retire. I have them physically, so I can legally emulate them then 😁 .



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    #11327
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492052#Comment_120492052

    Funny enough I find games like Horizon harder to jump back into than something like Elden Ring. Maybe that’s just muscle memory from a decade and a half of Souls-like, but IMO the main combat flow and control system in Horizon is more finicky and specific than Elden Ring. Elden Ring has plenty of complexity in terms of builds, weapons, enemy patterns, non-signposted sub quests etc… for sure. But the basic gameplay has a simpler and more intuitive core loop than Horizon.



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    #11328
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,579 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492095#Comment_120492095

    That's fair enough. I'd just disagree that the devs are in any way forced to "compromise their vision" by including cinematic stories in their games. I think in many ways that's just how storytelling in games has evolved for larger games, especially with technological advancements like motion capture.

    I was going to use Returnal as an example but I guess Housemarque weren't a first party studio during the development of that game anyway.

    But I think the more modern way of storytelling is just one part of the whole. It doesn't preclude a game from having fantastic, innovative gameplay, or prevent it from just being open-world fluff.



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    #11329
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492095#Comment_120492095

    They're not for me either, hope I didn't give that impression!



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    #11330
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,961 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    This debate is up there with BOTWs breakable weapons now. Some people like one style, other people like another style. Shocking stuff.



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    #11331
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493092#Comment_120493092

    I hope you enjoy that debate because there's more Zelda in a few days!

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    #11332
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,961 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I can ignore all Zelda debate because I've never played one (think I tried one, on a SNES emulator, lasted about an hour). And I could get involved in the ER/DS vs everything debate, specifically the Horizon FW one showing that more copies of Horizon were sold than ER on the PS4/5, but I won't. Because it's all down to personal choice at the end of the day.

    Although, I did ask my nephew again recently what the story was. He's 16 and has a couple of hundred hours in ER. He said "You go to big tree, big tree tells you you need to do x, you do x and return to tree, you are now an Elden Lord, or something like that, I just play for the combat". Yet was able to wax lyrical about GoW Ragnarok...



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    #11333
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    The lore in the From Software games is fun to watch YouTubers but honestly I just go through them taking on the atmosphere. It's more interesting when you let your mind fill in the blanks. I find the games are a bit like the movie angels egg in a way. Fitting as well as it was a massive influence on the series for miyazaki. Doesn't make sense but the journey and art are worth it. And it helps that the combat and level design are best in class.

    I'd honestly take that than a poor attempt to emulate tv and movies.

    What I've seen of elden ring it's got pretty much the worst lore and world building of the from games for me. The original dark souls on the other hand I think is a masterclass of interesting story telling that from never managed to top.

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    #11334
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,961 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    By fill in the blanks, do you mean make up your own story because the game doesn't give it to you at any point, or try and figure it out from all the random bits of undocumented encounters?

    I've seen people say you need to Google to get the full story, and that doesn't sound like a game to me.



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    #11335
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493735#Comment_120493735

    Nope, just don't even worry about figuring out the story. Just enjoy the atmosphere and weirdness of it all. As I said before story is the least important part of a game. If you want to know more about the games lore then there's YouTubers that have done the hard work. You'll figure most of it out by osmosis anyway.

    The original dark souls though does pull off something rather unique that the game and characters keeping the player in the dark and lying to them is part of the narrative. So in that case not really knowing what's going on probably enhances the experience. Demon's souls did something similar but not as well.

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    #11336
    Jordan 199
    Registered Users Posts: 11,902 ✭✭✭✭Jordan 199


    On the Xbox app I was looking at the games I played, and if there's one game I would like to give another go is Driver: San Francisco.

    Did any of you ever play those Driver games?



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    #11337
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494283#Comment_120494283

    Played a few of them. San Francisco is actually really good and worth playing. Really crazy premise as well but it's a huge amount of fun.

    The original was known for having a tutorial section that was near impossible and tougher than any other mission in the game. Decent game once you are out of the tutorial. The second was a technical marvel but never liked it. The third game is absolute horrendous pish and was involved in a controversy of paying off reviewers for good scores. I've not played parallel lines but apparently it's pretty good.

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    #11338
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,844 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494283#Comment_120494283

    I couldn't get out of the garage in the tutorial of Driv3r. You had to do some kind of sequence of moves like hand break turns in under 60 seconds I can't remember if I ever got it. 🤣



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    #11339
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,253 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    That was the first driver. Driv3r was the one with you glitching through geometry and the falling through the world all the time.

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    #11340
    Jordan 199
    Registered Users Posts: 11,902 ✭✭✭✭Jordan 199


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494358#Comment_120494358

    I played Driver: San Francisco nine years ago and you are right, it was great fun.

    San Francisco was a great location for a game like Driver due to the hills and the twisty-turny Lombard Street.



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    #11341
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    It's still bizarre that they came up with body swapping as the main mechanical gimmick for San Francisco, but even more surprising that it works as well as it does!



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