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Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,828 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    It's not all back patting and inflating one's ego, there was a flip side to the 'essential worker' thing too. While all of my friends and family worked remotely from home during the pandemic, we all had to come into work despite the apparent danger of the situation.

    Fairly sure bin men and waste collection was considered essential work during the pandemic..?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭Villa05


    The issue in Limerick is availability and consequently price.

    Note the ministers response to the issue below in that the new employees at eli lily will be living in the area already. Really! Has he been across the road and asked Regeneron

    Is this FG way of saying, good new jobs are only open to persons with secure housing in another attempt to pull up the ladder to new entrants

    What is it we hear about every fdi job bringing another 2 to 3 spin off jobs. Where will they live

    The basic functioning of the economy is being put at risk by a government that has money coming out of its ears from this very source and it can't build some homes for those that generate it. Not only that, but also consistently object to new housing in most areas. The state is probably the largest land and building holder in the State also

    How can they be so incompetent?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    If ever I saw a story where I dont think im getting the whole story that would be one :)

    A surgeon leaving the operating theater. A solicitor advising him not to pay the rent.

    hmmmmmm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭ingo1984


    Philip lane stated a few months ago that they'll keep raising rates until the rates are higher than the inflation rate and they'll hold rates at that rate for some time so that inflation doesn't take off again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    8 months of non payment of rent by surgeon to old man. Refers to him as Tomas in a very even tone and then completely loses it when Tomas goes for him. Tomas, "I am mad. I'm mad at you".

    Tomas is very lucky he didn't cut the surgeon's fingers.

    Looks like Tomas was driven around the bend and has lost it altogether. The Gardai should have intervened months before hand.

    It's a civil matter is not sufficient. It's not the 1800s, a well paid doctor refusing to pay rent should be turfed out if he continues to refuse to pay rent IMHO and the situation of mad Tomas wielding a circular saw should never have happened.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Its a precendent, not intended to be myopic. But if you were to introduce some form of salary weighting for public sector roles, you have to create a border somewhere.

    Whether its South Dublin, County Dublin or Greater Dublin, or anywhere else.

    But a border would need to be created, as they do in London.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,995 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Lawyers were on the essential worker list during Covid. So were accountants and bankers. You'd be hard pressed to find a job that wasn't somehow essential.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Well the tenant being a medical professional appears to check out.

    Anyone switching current account manually from UB or Kbc in the last few months will understand that it's an incredibly tedious process and prone to error. The landlord appears to admit to changing accounts.

    The landlord does not appear to be the sharpest tool in the box if you pardon the pun.

    Not familiar with legal advise, but tenant story does appear plausible, while common sense would tell you to have very little to do with such a landlord.

    Several criminal offences on video here, how this can be described as a civil matter is puzzling?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Indeed. Tax cuts would be another option.

    I dont think introducing a weighting salary is the only option.

    I guess the advantage of weighting is that it targets the areas where cost of living is highest.

    As mentioned earlier, a teacher on 45k in Mayo doesnt have the same living costs as a teacher on the same salary in South Dublin.

    You could argue reasonably that the 45k teacher in Mayo doesnt need extra money, since their rent and essential costs are affordable.

    But if all the teachers in South Dublin are paying triple the rent vs all the Mayo teachers & as a result the South Dublin teachers are mostly leaving the profession, we would need to do something to support them to stay in their roles.

    Salary Weighting is an obvious option.

    I do agree with you that the govt need to build more houses and more houses in South Dublin would pull those rents down and perhaps the Weighting wouldnt be needed anymore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,035 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    If the state start paying top up salaries to Dublin based workers then they are inflating Dublin property/rent prices directly, and the Dublin salary differential will have to keep increasing over time ad infinitum.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    There is some inflationary pressure, sure. But leaving things as they are isnt an option.

    The key solution is obviously building more stock, but I would like to see affordable homes schemes introduced, to buy and to rent, that are aimed at key workers.

    Apartment Complex A has a significant percentage of homes that are state owned and are available as cost rental or on help to buy/shared equity scheme, but you dont qualify by being on the dole or being on a low salary, you qualify only through being a key worker.

    Nurse, Teacher, Refuse collector, etc.

    Another approach not linked to Salary Weighting, but it does require the Govt to build and invest, and not just to invest in the usual suspects - the no and the low paid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    My question would be whether Thomas engineered the unpaid rent situation by closing his bank account because he needed to sell the place.

    He raised the circular saw up after the tenant made a sudden movement toward him in response to being told to go to hell, you see the tenants right arm (or something) flash into shot at that point, Thomas then swings the saw toward him in what looks to me like a warning to get back and threatens him.

    Definitely end of his tether stuff, I wonder if the old guy knew that the supposedly legal 6 months notice would work would things have ended up as they did or is it all the media attention over the eviction ban that made him think he would never get his place back without trying to evict them himself. He might desperately need the money which drove him over the edge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,304 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    The surgeon was on the news last night. He had continued to pay the rent into the bank account but the landlord had changed his bank and forgot to tell the tenant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Yes it is an option to leave payments as they are, eventually prices will fall and supply will improve. Weighting will not be something the Government will be able to row back on once it is introduced and it will just sow division between those who get it, and those who don’t but feel they deserve to. Everyone knows, and understands why there is a difference in costs between rural areas and Dublin, if you choose to live in Dublin, then you accept that difference.

    Post edited by Dav010 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,304 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Lack of construction workers is not the problem. Lack of money is not the problem. Bureacracy and NIMBY-ism are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    All of those are part of the problem, among other things. There is no one problem here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    We dont have a choice as to whether or not teachers come into work. If they dont come in then the children dont get taught.

    Im not sure rural ireland would want all the Dublin teachers living in their backyards and spending every day commuting to a school in the city, renting and buying up cheaper housing while they are at it, which removes housing stock for locals in rural ireland.

    prices wont fall without a real & significant increase in new builds, as supply is just far too weak vs demand and that wont change for years, particularly in the Dublin area.

    So we do need to do something in the shorter term to manage the accommodation issue, especially for key workers on low to mid salaries.

    As per my last post, we may leave the salary weighting option alone but instead provide targeted affordable and shared equity homes for key workers.

    The govt could really help in that regard by injecting cash into delivery of these units and reserving the majority of them for key workers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Current housing policy is about enriching/protecting the already wealthy, There is no room here for providing accomodation for key workers (Which can be done in a revenue positive manner for the taxpayer)

    These Fine Gael pushed schemes wil cost us all.

    The most expensive social housing ever will mean less of it for the growing population that need it

    Driving up prices will hurt those that need to finance their own through buying or renting

    The contracts are inflation linked so the state is trapped for 25 years as the cycle begins it's upturn.

    Homeowners will have to pay higher taxes to fund the madness, this on top of the massive national debt




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Absolutely... That fellow was a chancer... He didn't pay his rent for 8 months... Then he said he kept it an account for the landlord... He probably thought he landed in the land of opportunities with free rent. Landlord shouldn't have losted like he did but perhaps he was riddled with mortgage debt on behalf of a "surgeon"... What surgeon acts like that!!

    Living the life



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Galwayhurl


    I'm astounded at how little stock is coming on stream.

    Usually it has started accelerating by now after the usual winter lull. But there are feck all lisitngs still and we're almost in May. Doesn't make sense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭herbalplants



    Big percentage of notices for both renovations or selling were deemed invalid.

    Perhaps this is why not much is coming on the market. We are in froze mode.

    Living the life



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭ingo1984


    Mind boggling stuff. Assuming a rental cost of 2k per month that the council will pay (it's probably more than that) over the course of the 25 year lease, the council will pay more in rent than it would cost to buy all the apartments outright. Also at the end of the lease they won't have an asset in owning the apartments. I wonder who in the council is getting the backhander from the investment company.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    So they should be allowed jump the housing list? Is that what you are proposing…make them no1 priority even if partner holds a top paying job or a millionaire. They are far from the only cohort that is impacted by the housing crisis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Other companies used the same formula on redundancies. Not sure why they thought they were special and should get better package


    Living the life



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Deemed invalid by Threshold, not by the RTB. Threshold are not known for their impartiality, nor is their advice beyond question. Remember, their advice in some cases to tenants has reported to be, overhold, how is that deemed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭Villa05


    The children's hospital is regularly cited by a poster here as a huge overspend. The way things are going and spending is, it may prove to be the best value for money spending by FG.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Whether it proves value for money in the long term is irrelevant to the fact that it is one BILLION euro over budget.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    I think it is more short term thinking instead of a back hander. Council has a limited budget. If they buy out right they might be only able to buy x amount. By leasing, they can get 15 or 20 times that amount. Sure, in 25 years they are back to square one but that will be someone else's problem. The government should block them from doing it as it is a terrible waste of money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    This is the point, in principle if a landlord gives notice for any of the valid reasons it is impossible to determine if that is invalid in advance, for example for their own or family use, they move in later....renovations, are done later...selling, is done later. The property owner has a right to make their own decisions on timing of all of those things, to put the burden of proof on them in advance as default is just wrong or might be setting an impossible hurdle. It is their property, the burden of proof should be on any challenge to them exercising their property rights. The stuff around typos and sending to RTB on the same day etc. is even worse.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    I would say key workers should be prioristied for social housing, yes.

    Over and above people that dont work for a living or are on the prioritised list just because they are a single parent etc.

    All people need to be housed, but priority of social govt funded housing should go to those providing social services to the rest of us.

    Tis only fair.



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