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BRS and GDPR

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  • 19-04-2023 1:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭


    My golf club insists that name is on time sheet every time I play at the club even if its only 3 holes.

    Is this the case in every club?.

    Post edited by slave1 on


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Dbu




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    800 plus members including neighbours and work colleagues know when I'm on the golf course.

    Ps wife also...



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    You can't just pull up GDPR for every time your name appears somewhere - you know the amount of hoops that EVERYONE would have to jump through we GDPR followed to the letter of the law?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Trampas


    What is the gdpr issue? It’s a name who could be anyone. Not like it’s John Smith 1 Main Street, St Andrew’s.

    Can every Joe soap see the timesheet names or just members who log in?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,531 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    I thought when you're external you can only see if a line is filled, not the names on it.

    Certainly the case every time I book an open.

    Members can see full details, but not visitors, general public, etc...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,168 ✭✭✭✭PARlance



    I'm guessing it's a personal privacy thing more than any GDPR issue.

    Everyone pretty much knows everyone in our club. If my work involved dealing with other members, I'm not sure I would be delighted with them knowing when I was golfing. I'm sure the odd tradesman has received the odd snide remark for e.g.

    But I can't see any real way around it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    You probably agreed to a disclaimer on your name being used as part of your general membership. If you have a valid issue you can always put it in email to the committee to be discussed formally at a meeting

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Trampas


    So you don’t like members seeing you playing the game you all play or is it the wife thinking your working but you’ve sneaked out for a quick 3 holes on way home from work. You’re overthinking it. 99% don’t gives a toss who’s playing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    I was playing well on Sunday when one of my four ball commented " sure hasn't he been practicing all week"

    It got me thinking...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭coillcam


    Yes, it's the same everywhere. The obvious reasons are insurance and identification. Eg if someone was playing and not paid their green fee/membership.

    Also this isn't a GDPR issue whatsoever. What area of GDPR do you think is being broken here?

    The listing of your name and any member is a fairly obvious standard process for plenty of reasons. I don't see a "personal" impact on an individual where it would trump having your name listed on a tee sheet.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,355 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    You probably shouldn't be hiding things from your wife :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    The purpose of GDPR was not to give people a cloak of anonymity to adorn as they choose. It was prevent organisations collating, using and selling your data for their own gain.

    A timesheet doesn’t fall foul of this. It’s a dataset that facilitates a club and its members in accurately fulfilling duties. No different to a staff rota.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭big_drive


    I think there's an insurance issue behind it too, clubs must be aware of who is on the course at a particular time. And be able to look back on records to see if needed. Suppose a month down the line an individual claimed they were injured on course, etc. Clubs need to see evidence if a person was actually there that date



  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭JIdontknow


    I think this is part of it, for insurance reasons incase anything happens (and previously for Covid contact tracing purposes etc). Also some courses have problems with "visitors" sneaking out for a few holes in the evenings when the pro shop closes - easy for members to check the timesheet on the phone to see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    I agree with the last two posts that the club needs to know but does the whole 800 members need to knows?

    Does slow seanie and useless eugene have a god forsaken right to join me every time they see my name on the timesheet?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,970 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    If there is a free slot beside your name of course they do. It’s their course/club as much as it is yours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,970 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    C’mon, we aren’t all as clean living as you 😇



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    Of course, they should see one slot taken and the other three free. Same as if you book an open day in another club.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭Golfgraffix


    This is a wind up surely ??



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,970 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    My point is that they don't need to know the name.... Just a slot booked



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,970 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Maybe you should give up golf if you are so worried .



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭coillcam


    Well you can see what slots to avoid slow Seanie or have the pleasant nice surprise when you see him waiting for you on the first. You can't have it both ways.



  • Registered Users Posts: 344 ✭✭Dr Devious


    Send a link from this thread to both Seanie and Eugene and after reading it I'm sure neither will have any problem withdrawing their names rather than spend a few hours with you on the golf course.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    GDPR is much, much more than that. It puts a legal obligation on organisations to keep information confidential to those who need.

    This sounds like a very clear breach of GDPR, if any club member can see information that they don't need to see.

    Even if a member agreed to such sharing of information when joining, they could withdraw consent to sharing at any time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Trampas




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Take your pick;

    Article 5, principles

    Article 25, data protection by design

    Article 32, security of processing


    You could even go back before GDPR to look at  Article 8 of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, which states;

    1. Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭coillcam


    A name is a small piece of data that can personally identify you but is not an absolute identifier. Their name is not published or shared publicly. It is internal to the members of the golf club and their booking system. Every club on their membership terms/policies should refer specifically to their data policy and also when you sign up to use BRS that they are bound by BRS relevant data policies. It would be odd to be in a club where you don't know who's even in it.

    I'm very curious about your criteria for these articles being breached.

    Article 5, I see nothing to conflict here. You are consenting to have your data processed in a legitimate, adequate and minimal manner (the least amount of identifiable info). It is used for a very specific purpose.

    Article 25, There is no glaring design/process flaw here in the BRS. The most minimal data is visible, only to members inside the walled garden of your club BRS.

    Article 32, What is the organisational process or technical limitation is here relevant to a person's name appearing on BRS tee times which means your data is being processed insecurely?

    Putting it very simply, everyone 100% has the right to their personal data being protected in the fullest sense possible. However, in this case, a BRS user gives consent that a minimal amount of personal data is shared in a secured platform, that is private to members and used fairly and reasonably.

    If we were to say everyone has the right to never have their information recorded or published anywhere. You'd basically never have existed on the planet, never drive a car, no bank account, never went on a plane, etc etc. Unless you want to live with an uncontacted tribe somewhere off the grid but by all means go for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Lads, I'm not going to GDPR 101 class via posts here.

    Your name is personal data. It's the first feckin example of personal data given in the actual GDPR recital.

    This isn't about knowing who is a member of your club. This is about knowing what member was booked and playing on the course at a particular time and date.

    Comparisons to bank accounts and going on a plane are way off the mark. Your bank doesn't share your personal data with other customers. It doesn't have a list of who came into the bank available to other customers. Your airline doesn't share your personal data with other customers. It doesn't have a list of passengers on display to the public when you're choosing your seats, for example, or at any other time.

    Article 5; "collected for specified, explicit and legitimate purposes and not further processed in a manner that is incompatible with those purposes;" - making the data about course bookings visible to other members is 'further processing incompatible with those purposes.

    Article 25; this is absolutely a failure to do data protection by design and by default. This is not 'the most minimal data' on display. The most minimal data would be to show that the slot is booked, but not show who has booked it.

    Article 32; There is a clear absence of "the ability to ensure the ongoing confidentiality, integrity, availability and resilience of processing systems and services". There is no confidentiality of user data, if the member's bookings are visible to all other players.

    You might think that you're doing the club a favour by downplaying this. You're not.

    The biggest favour you can do for this club and any other club doing the same thing is to give them a good kick in the arse and tell them to sort out their systems before they find themselves facing substantial fines and damaged reputations.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Speaking as a member of a golf club, I'd be very disappointed if the names were blanked on the timesheets.

    I like to be able to chose who I play with.

    Should the names of footballers not be included in newspaper match reports?

    Should television commentators only refer to players as numbers (with players having different numbers for each match)?

    When people's names and addresses were in phone books, did they suffer greatly?



This discussion has been closed.
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