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Heavyweight Boxing

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    #10832
    Eurox6
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Eurox6


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494329#Comment_120494329

    But that not how it works in real life is it,For example if Zhang threw the left hand more there's every chance Joyce gets a better read on it and avoids it, Zhang threw 284 less shots than Joyce but landed 18 more power shots,

    Him picking his punches is what worked to his advantage ,

    AJ can't /won't step into the pocket & engage anymore with more than one shot , maximum two ,so there is no way he beats Joyce in a fashion Zhang did ,



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    #10833
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,756 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494329#Comment_120494329

    Its not about fitness, Aj is afraid to let his hands go,

    AJ threw 175 shots in the first 6 round v Franklin ,

    Zhang threw 180 & round 6 was stopped way short,



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    #10834
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Zhang’s draw with Jerry Forrest a few years ago showed where he really is at world level. I’m afraid I really overestimated Joyce.



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    #10835
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120495121#Comment_120495121

    You’re overestimating Joyce I think. Yes, possibility if Zhang threw more , Joe could read and defend. But something tells me that the reverse happens; that Zhang lands more and gets the job done quicker.

    Anyway, for me, his “picking” his punches was as much to do with him not having the energy to throw more freely as opposed to a deliberate and thought out plan.



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    #10836
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120495143#Comment_120495143

    Not with you. I simply said that if Zhang was fitter he likely engages more and gets Joe out there earlier.

    Yes, I get your view on AJ and his commitment as regards offence. I just think you are overegging it. I reckon AJ today still can get off enough potent offence to take Joe apart.

    Post edited by walshb on


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    #10837
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,756 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120495259#Comment_120495259

    He might beat Joe but he isn't going in there and going after him early, That carnation of AJ is gone for years now ,



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    #10838
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120495445#Comment_120495445

    No need to go after him. Joe likely presses the forward action and AJ punches him hard in the face.



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    #10839
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    The Joshua of a few years ago would beat Joyce comfortably one would think, it's very hard to know now. It's amazing how Joshua changed post the Ruiz defeat.



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    #10840
    OmegaGene
    Registered Users Posts: 9,334 ✭✭✭OmegaGene


    https://youtu.be/a5uyXYeofxo

    spokesperson for the skills challenge has his say on the mega fights

    The internet isn’t for everyone



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    #10841
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120495259#Comment_120495259

    If Zhang were fitter he’d be lighter and maybe not as powerful. Trying to get the blanket to cover the feet and the shoulders isn’t easy.

    I think Joyce gives Joshua a tough night but I think some time during every round Joshua would get a really good dig in and that would be telling.



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    #10842
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496492#Comment_120496492

    He doesn’t necessarily need to be lighter to be fitter. Fitness is as much innate/natural as anything. Lungs/heart/breathing etc. The chap has shown cardio issues in previous fights. For some athletes, cardio fitness just doesn’t come as naturally.



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    #10843
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,392 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496646#Comment_120496646

    For twelve rounds there's nobody that has it naturally. You have to put in the hard yards to be fit enough to go twelve rounds.

    As for AJ, it's quite clear he's afraid to engage for long and I think it's because he's worried about getting stopped.

    He'd have a reach advantage over Joyce which would suit him as he's happy these days to stay on the outside.



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    #10844
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I think Joshua would be able to beat Joyce at range on points. Joyce is tough but not a huge hitter. I think Joshua throws better quality too.



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    #10845
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,649 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496864#Comment_120496864

    Pretty much how I see it. The biggest deciding factor is probably their speed difference. Speed of hands, speed of reactions, speed of feet. Joe is slower!!!!!

    and I don’t think he has a chance to do damage with 1, 2 shots. He hasn’t got that fight changing power, even if AJs chin is iffy!!!!



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    #10846
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497255#Comment_120497255

    Yea that’s true. That said Joe is braver of late and has more belief in himself, although he may feel inferior to Joshua. He has a big advantage with chin too so there are avenues for him to win the fight and that’s why I give him a 3-4/10 chance.



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    #10847
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Just finally getting caught up on the Joshua Franklin fight. Thought Joshua looked fairly comfortable throughout. Franklin did quite well and has very fast hands. It was a peculiar match for Joshua as it could have gone wrong against a guy who is smaller than him, with quick hands. 10th round was great action and Joshua caught Franklin well. That uppercut is very well thrown. I didn’t think Franklin ever looked like he was troubling Joshua

    A bigger stand up fool like Gary Cornish is more what I was expecting from the camp. He struggles with fellas shorter than him with quick hands. Franklin took a lot of shots very well. Joshua didn’t really follow his punches and was always partially committed but I understand that he’s lost 3 in 5 so I forgive caution. I dont think a lay off until December suits him but he might yet fight in the summer.



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    #10848
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,756 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497255#Comment_120497255

    Your not wrong at all but i just think personally that the Joes constant pressure would get to AJ even without big punching power

    AJ panics when anybody gets close to him these days, he get rigid & stiffens up, which is exhausting, I think Aj would panic & blow a casket,

    But your right in saying he has everything in his tool box to stay long & beat Joyce i just don't think he has the head for it ,



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    #10849
    OmegaGene
    Registered Users Posts: 9,334 ✭✭✭OmegaGene


    I think watching joyce in the past would give Aj a massive confidence boost going into a fight with him, ruiz was a surprise as a late change and Usyk is just so fast Aj got a fried brain just from trying to watch him

    aj would beat joyce at a canter in my opinion

    The internet isn’t for everyone



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    #10850
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    The whole thing about the last Joshua fight was very understated. No fireworks, he wasnt calm during the ring walk and he didn’t really go after a big statement win. But he got the win and that was all-important. It might settle him down again and he could go after opponents like he has done before. I still think he could have got to Usyk better if he didn’t try to box him but Usyk won that on his own merit twice so he needs to be given the credit. The pre-Wlad Joshua was the best version to fight Usyk for me and the best Version Joshua has been. Wlad might have been his best performance regardless of age but he’s not been the same since. You could argue that Ruiz was more of a turning point, if only he’d not lunged in unprotected, if only that one big hit hadn’t scrambled his brains, if only Millar hadn’t failed the drug test



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    #10851
    OmegaGene
    Registered Users Posts: 9,334 ✭✭✭OmegaGene


    so who are we thinking for fury next ? im going with Ruiz on July 22nd in a uk stadium

    https://youtu.be/sHZ6VHlz38g


    The internet isn’t for everyone



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    #10852
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Yea Ruiz is a good shout he’s the next ranked after Usyk, Wilder & Joshua so that would make sense. Also a fairly big draw. I think Frank Sanchez would be an interesting opponent but it would be a rather dull fight, won on points for my money. He wont fight Ortiz and I can’t see Bakole getting the shot either. Parker is a non event. When you know it’s not going to be anyone in the top 4 it leaves slim pickings so Ruiz is next best. Think it’s too easy a fight for Fury though but he could become the first to KO Ruiz.



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    #10853
    Eurox6
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Eurox6


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120499832#Comment_120499832

    AJ & Hearn will be sick if Fury demolishes Ruiz ,



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    #10854
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,392 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120499541#Comment_120499541

    He needs someone new and he'll find the one that makes the most money for him. Ruiz isn't a money maker for him.

    Dubois would make a fortune for him and I think he'd beat him easily enough too.



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    #10855
    OmegaGene
    Registered Users Posts: 9,334 ✭✭✭OmegaGene


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120500126#Comment_120500126

    dubois is already lined up to challenge usyk next as mandatory so i cant see him risking that by fighting tyson fury

    The internet isn’t for everyone



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    #10856
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Would Dubois have that massive a following? I think he’s miles and miles off that. If he fought Ruiz in Vegas there would be a massive Mexican following. If he fought him in London it would do well too. Both off good and decent wins etc. In any case Dubois is as you say tied up. So is Wilder, Joshua, Usyk, Joyce… not that awful many to pick from. He’s been too critical of Ortiz I dont think it’s much of a fight.



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    #10857
    Joeseph Balls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭Joeseph Balls


    I'd rather pay to see Fury v Ruiz than Dubois. I would have thought the Ruiz fight would have made more money, no? The man who topled Joshua, higher ranked. What does Dubois bring? Except UK v UK hypejob.



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    #10858
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120501676#Comment_120501676

    Yea I agree with you. Dubois is still a fairly novice fighter who’s beaten no one and whatever way you look on it taking the knee against Joyce didn’t do him much good. For that matter, he’s not a great draw for Usyk. But he has more of a chance there. Usyk is great but he’s always giving away power at HW and might be vulnerable after the disappointment of the undisputed fight falling through. Ruiz has already shown he can rise to the big occasion so I just think that’s a much better fight. Unless Franklin!! Joke!



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    #10859
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,392 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120501676#Comment_120501676

    That's exactly it, Dubois is huge in the UK and so is Fury. It'd be a massive money spinner.



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    #10860
    OmegaGene
    Registered Users Posts: 9,334 ✭✭✭OmegaGene


    I disagree with dubois being huge in the U.K. he’s still a very young fighter with no big wins under his belt

    ruiz is a former world champion so the financials don’t compare for me, even the average part time boxing fan will know ruiz from beating Aj but dubois is very low key, not a chance if Frank putting him in with fury to get dismantled but I could be wrong

    The internet isn’t for everyone



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    #10861
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502153#Comment_120502153

    I think youre right here. He’s never really even drawn a big crowd. The Joyce fight was during covid, not sure about the Gorman one and the one in USA had about 20 in it. Even Don King was embarrassed.

    Dubois is a dilemma. He’s had a contender fight and come up very short so does he now take risky fights or gimme fights because he is still young and pretty inexperienced. AGainst a HW giant I think he will get KO’d so Usyk doesn’t really represent that danger for him as much. If he can get that fight take it all day long. Other than that I’m unsure. I think he will fight Wardley at some point but where does he go if he loses that? For what its worth I think he will win it, Wardley just loves getting hit and then wakening but that wont work against more powerful HWs



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