"Green" policies are destroying this country

20-04-2023 8:22pm

A lot of important items moved a step closer to full legal standing this week in the EU parliament

The Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism
- the world's first carbon border tax, in a bid to avoid EU companies being undercut by regimes with less stringent green policies.
The ETS scheme extended for aviation & shipping)
- The revision of the EU's carbon market, known as the Emissions Trading System, includes fully integrating aviation into the mechanism and extending it to cover shipping emissions. It also compels power generators and heavy polluters to curb their pollution by 62 percent by 2030.
86 billion social climate fund to aid those impacted by climate change
- Legislators also backed a €86.7 billion Social Climate Fund to help governments soften the blow of higher prices for vulnerable consumers. The fund will be made available from 2026.
ETS scheme extended for heat and transport
- a parallel carbon market to cover fossil fuels used to power cars and heat buildings from 2027

That second one will have a massive impact. Boeing and Airbus have been waiting to see how stringent it will be and are already looking at lower emitting engine options.

20-04-2023 8:23pm

If anyone gives a damn, under current minister Hackett, there is for the first time in the hustory of the state no planting programme in operation this year, and no idea of when one will be in place.

Less than 100ha of trees have been planted this year. The target is 8000ha.

As a forester, I have been unable to speak with the minister. However I have in my possession a personally signed letter from the minister to someone well-known in Irish social circles, promising that there will at some stage be a planting programme. The asslicking and gushing vibe of the letter is hilarious if it were not such a serious issue with livelihoods ruined and with serious climate implications. Clearly Mrs. Hackett is a star-fucker. Pity she wouldn't do her job.

A sign of Green imcompetence and deliberate wrecking of an important sector.

charlie14 · 20-04-2023 10:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120500360#Comment_120500360

Is that not the same Tynagh Power Plant you were cheering on the protest by a one man and dog group of greens to ensure it would never open just a few months ago ?

There are only two ways of getting oil from Whiddy to Tynagh. Put it on a barge, ship it to land, load it on tankets and then a 180 Km. road trip. Or, a barge shipping it from Whiddy by sea to the mouth of the Shannon, then up the Shannon as far as Portumna to there be unloaded on to tankers and driven 20 Km to Tynagh.

Totally impracticle in both scenarios where even if it could be burned in Tynagh, a plant with 400 MW capacity, the energy produced would only be a drop in the ocean. As well as it taking most likely requiring as much energy to get it there as it would provide.

20-04-2023 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120501793#Comment_120501793

Awkward transportation, I suppose it's as good a reason as any to get fossil fuels out of our energy mix

charlie14 · 20-04-2023 11:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120501877#Comment_120501877

You really are shameless.

A few months ago you were calling for Tynagh power plant never to open, now it would be the solution to a drop in the supply of gas.

Fossils fuels will be needed for many years to come. Head in the sand moronic idiocy like "leave it in the ground" is not going to change that.

Capt'n Midnight · 21-04-2023 1:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120500014#Comment_120500014

IIRC all the gas powered plants have to keep two weeks worth of liquid fuel such as distillate oil as a backup fuel source on site. After that we'd have to get it to site.

We're down to 4GW peak demand and there'll be a lot less demand for heating too for a while so Corrib would keep us going until it gets cold again.

Operation Tidal Wave was an air attack by bombers of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) based in Libya on nine oil refineries around Ploiești, Romania on 1 August 1943, during World War II. It was a strategic bombing mission and part of the "oil campaign" to deny petroleum-based fuel to the Axis powers.[4] The mission resulted in "no curtailment of overall product output".[6]

The refineries had spare capacity. They were able to re-route around the damaged areas and keep going using the undamaged ones.

The UK won't cut off gas to the EU because that would impact trading and the UK needs food. ( Hint Russia is still exporting gas to the EU via Ukraine )

marno21 · 21-04-2023 8:18am

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0421/1378223-ryan-port/

This will be an interesting one to resolve. Economic growth or green ideology?

charlie14 · 21-04-2023 9:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502321#Comment_120502321

A just heard him interviewed by RTE for the 9 o clock news. When asked did his government colleagues share his concerns, rather than answer I thought he suddently developed an interest in social housing.

roosterman71 · 21-04-2023 9:52am

He's right about the rail infrastructure and dependence on road. It's a bit silly really not having rail in and out of the port. There was talk a few years ago of Portlaoise becoming an inland port of sorts where containers could be railed down to there and loaded on trucks at that point for further journeys onwards away from the rail network. Made sense.

David McWilliams has one good idea which is to relocate the port out of the city altogether. I'd agree with that.

In a letter to the board, Mr Ryan said he is "troubled" that the plan "reflects a continued reliance on unsustainable models of maritime trade and logistics that run counter to our national climate, circular economy, housing and biodiversity objectives".

I think Ryan is off in cuckoo land with this. We're an island on the edge of Europe. Air or sea is the only way to get things in or out of the island. We are reliant on it and will be for ever more. It does read like we must stop importing/exporting in favour of climate issues.

Kincora2017 · 21-04-2023 10:39am

It’s not either economic growth or green ideology though is it? doubling of the port capacity with all that extra volume of trucks going up the Port Tunnel and on to the m50, is at best, ill conceived.

At the very least rail infrastructure must be considered. As some others have said, expansion of some of the other ports make far more sense than this.

we’ve also been here before with Dublin Port. As older Boardies might remember, in the past they have wanted to store gas in chambers under Fairview and “reclaim”around Clontarf to expand the Port….neither good ideas.

tom1ie · 21-04-2023 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502094#Comment_120502094

That’s interesting to know about the DO kept on site at gas generators. Any links to that?

It would be interesting to see if Tynagh had this DO storage as that would show Eirgrids list is wrong.

Also while heating is down now, winter will come again hence demand will go up, so what happens if there’s a technical fault then?

A well run system with good redundancy is a system that covers all eventualities and prepares for them.

A fault on gas mains that originate from the same station, occurring at the same time as a period of low wind in winter (solar min- high demand) wouldn’t be beyond the realms of possibility.

Furze99 · 21-04-2023 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502576#Comment_120502576

Yeah, Ryan outlined his objections and was then asked was he there representing a) himself b) his dept / the government or c) the Green Party.

It was a reasonable and pertinent question but on which he appeared to be flummoxed.

Larbre34 · 21-04-2023 4:11pm

Ryan would be flummoxed if you asked him the time of day and presented him with a clock.

He needs removing from responsibility for ports and airports before he singlehandedly stunts Ireland's economic growth, because he is a clown and a moron.

charlie14 · 21-04-2023 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504218#Comment_120504218

I don`t think he was one bit flummoxed. He knew the answer to the question, but rather than answer it he used that old political dodge.

Where answering a question you have been asked is going to be embarrassing, answer a question you would liked to have been asked instead.

charlie14 · 21-04-2023 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504017#Comment_120504017

From the recent CEPA energy supply review, secondary fuel storage requirements are just 5 days.

Whether all gas fired plants are capable of using oil or, if the are, if the have even that 5 day storage it seems nobody really knows the answer to either question.

That said, I would not put much faith in anything that review says. It`s more aspiral wishful thinking and contradictions than an actual review.

JRant · 21-04-2023 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502611#Comment_120502611

With 75% of all cargo going less than 60 miles does it really make sense to use rail to move those goods around. Shipping everything from Dublin port by rail only to ship it back to Dublin seems a tad unnecessary.

The reason is reads like that is because that's exactly what he wants. He's is favour of the new ETS for flights within Europe, which will be expanded to ferries. The goal is to make it too expensive for the plebs to travel anywhere. Imagine an island nation in the arsehole of Europe cheering on making air and sea travel far more expensive. I'd laugh if it wasn't so serious.

JRant · 21-04-2023 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504233#Comment_120504233

Don't be fooled by that dopey looking exterior. He knows exactly what he's doing and would have us all back working the land to achieve his green utopia. He's a very dangerous individual. Remember the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

21-04-2023 6:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504538#Comment_120504538

The ETS scheme is about motivating plane manufacturers and airlines into kicking it up a notch in terms of transitioning to zero emission fleets as orders for emitting engines will dry up once zero emitting engines become available and no airline is going to willingly sign up to having higher fares for PAX if they have an option which allows them to charge lower fares and therefore remain competitive

The manufacturer that gets its zero emissions planes to market first is going to clean up as those will allow the first purchasing airlines to dominate with lower fares as they won't be hit with emission charges. Its why Airbus, Roll-Royce etc are all working on hydrogen based engines and are aiming for a 2035 roll-out. The big question is fuel availability

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2022-11-airbus-reveals-hydrogen-powered-zero-emission-engine

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/rolls-royce-successfully-tests-hydrogen-powered-jet-engine-2022-11-28/

Boeing is targeting 2030 where "all the aircraft it sells will be certified to run entirely on these fuels derived from crop residue or other raw materials, rather than the 50/50 blend approved so far by the ASTM International standards body". No clue if that fuel will make any difference as regards ETS though.

https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/airbus-and-boeing-embrace-contrasting-strategies-in-drive-for-cleaner-air-transportation/

Boeing have teased that they are looking at hydrogen and electric options but haven't released much details yet so more to come on that no doubt.

roosterman71 · 21-04-2023 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504538#Comment_120504538

Never said rail it all only to bring it back to Dublin. I mentioned an inland port where goods could/should be railed to and then on trucks to the next part of their trip away from the rail network. Rail would move a lot more and a lot quicker out of the port than trucks, especially that which is going out away from Dublin to the sticks!

21-04-2023 6:29pm

Following on from an air monitoring project in Cork city

https://twitter.com/CRAClabUCC/status/1649440264212054023?s=20

another such project is kicking off for Galway city

https://www.insight-centre.org/insight-sustainability-sensing-air-for-citizen-science/

The one in Galway will have an expanded scope of not just looking at particulate matter

The aim of the project is to read, store and analyse CO2 emissions data which will form a multisite data network with a city dashboard display. This will be a first step in developing a bundle of sensors to target other gases and pollutants such as nitrous dioxide, sulphur dioxide, carbon monoxide and particulate matter.

Wanderer78 · 21-04-2023 6:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502321#Comment_120502321

...or maybe its a economic growth ideology v's green concerns, or economic growth ideology v's green ideology, or.......

JRant · 21-04-2023 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504692#Comment_120504692

And who pays for all this in the meantime? Take a guess. It's going to greatly increase the cost of travel for everyone on this island.

Jinglejangle69 · 21-04-2023 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502321#Comment_120502321

Same as opening runway 2 at Dublin airport.

Like every greeny they pick and choose when and what is a “climate crisis”

JRant · 21-04-2023 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504709#Comment_120504709

I'm sure it does but only 25% is going a distance of more than 60 miles outside of the port. I also doubt rail could move anything quicker out of Dublin with the motorway network connections to every main region.

roosterman71 · 21-04-2023 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504806#Comment_120504806

I'd say your doubt is wrong. A train, loaded with cargo say for Cork may not get there as fast, but would carry a lot more in one go than a fleet of trucks. Wouldn't ya agree?

21-04-2023 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504792#Comment_120504792

So does road tax, which works on the exact same basis and in time, emitting planes and ships will also see something similar to the ICE bans though not on purchasing, most likely exclusion from European air ports/sea ports, something akin to LEZ's in cities.

Anything that kills the use of bunker fuel is no bad thing, its horrifically polluting crap

Markets adapt to the lowest cost model. As the ETS increases costs for the likes of shipping and airlines, they will shift to lower cost options, which due to the ETS, will be lower emitting ones.

This has happened with cars already, is underway with light commercial vehicles, is just starting with heavy commercial vehicles and will, in time, happen with heavy plant machinery, shipping and aviation.

As for the cost, its happening on a phased approach e.g. for shipping

Shipping companies will pay for the emissions they have reported on the previous year. To ensure a smooth transition, co-legislators agreed on a phase-in approach. This means that in 2025, they will pay for 40% of the emissions reported in 2024; in 2026, they will pay for 70% of their 2025 emissions, and from 2027 onwards, they will pay for 100% of their reported emissions. This will create a price signal in line with the polluter-pays principle that provides incentives for decarbonising the sector.

https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/transport-emissions/reducing-emissions-shipping-sector_en

It should also be noted, that this transition in shipping to lower emitting options was already underway, the EU ETS change merely puts additional cost pressures on the shipping companies rather than the agreement below which was nothing more than an agreement though in fairness several of the larger shipping companies have been doing tests with various other fuel and engine options to see what might be viable

https://www.iea.org/fuels-and-technologies/international-shipping

Pa ElGrande · 21-04-2023 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504713#Comment_120504713

Death by a 1 degree celcius rise in temperature loosing its appeal? 2.5 microns, dust, the latest bogeyman by environmentalists to be monetised.

How are we doing? looks fine to me, or do Greens think they can cheat death?

Larbre34 · 21-04-2023 7:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504899#Comment_120504899

It would, but as the man's post just said, 75% of all Dublin Port freight is going no further than 60 miles from the Port and it is going to thousands of delivery locations that rail simply cannot satisfy.

In other words, take everything away from Dublin Port by train if you like, but you have to break the bulk for onward road delivery at some point.

Rail only really works in Ireland for bulk outbound loads like zinc, timber,cement etc.

21-04-2023 8:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504972#Comment_120504972

Its always 1+1=3 in conspiracy world

Meanwhile estimates for deaths caused by air pollution are in the thousands

The report, Air Pollution and Mortality on the Island of Ireland, was commissioned by the Irish Heart Foundation and British Heart Foundation Northern Ireland, and carried out by Professor Patrick Goodman of TU Dublin with colleagues from Queen’s University Belfast.

The major cross-border assessment reveals that around 2,600 premature deaths can be attributable to air pollution – 1,700 in the Republic and 900 in Northern Ireland - annually.

https://www.tudublin.ie/explore/news/air-pollution-and-mortality-on-the-island-of-ireland-report-states-1000-lives-could-be-saved.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41018408.html

AnFearCeart · 21-04-2023 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504964#Comment_120504964

Everything you post above has only one outcome - more expensive EVERYTHING

You'd think over the last two years now that the penny would have dropped with the greens that their policies thus far have caused a fair bit of the inflation we've endured.

The greens know they're stuffed next election, its as if they're just determined to wreck as much of the economy as they can before they get the boot. Not surprising from a communist leaning party I guess.

"Green" policies are destroying this country

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