Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

The problem with this as we're already seeing with the first of these is when the government contracts private companies to do work they get absolutely rode. Everything is priced and charged at the absolute maximum so the "cost" rental ends up being 1500 quid a month for a two bed apt which is still pretty much useless.

When a private developer builds to sell their own properties these costs are kept to an absolute minimum because the margin is their profit which is why you see porches and even windows starting to become a bit of a rarity on many new builds.

This applies all the way up - a 200 bed hotel could be built for about 1/10 of a 200 bed hospital and we're seeing examples of this in Dublin as we speak.

The only solution is for the govt to build and manage the properties in the first place but they won't do that because it would bring the price of property and rents down. Solving the housing crisis but upsetting the rich, which is a no-no.

I think the 3k increase is a MoM figure...quote from the article below.

In the Last decade we sold apartments and housing to investment funds for peanuts and rented them back for a kings ransom.

Not smart

In the next decade we propose to subsidise the building of apartments which investment funds may buy with the subsidy discount and rent them to the state for a kings ransom.

Not smart

Surely the same logic applies to allowing a small number of investment funds monopolise and control rental supply in our high demand areas.

When we built 100k units in one year, it was not BAM or Sisk that were building them it was lots of small/mid sized operations that were building in every County in Ireland.

So where are all these modular homes being built?

if you only have 100 homes available, you can only house 100 families. If we dont prioritise key workers (or another group -please name another group if there is a better one?) then the 100 homes will fill up with those on welfare and the rich.

Exactly as you say.

So the squeezed middle will emigrate anyway, if they are so inclined.

if its a choice between a nurse or teacher or supermarket worker staying, yes, id prefer the key worker stayed over someone self employed or working admin in a bank, insurance company etc.

pensions were not part of the conversation but i agree that is a ticking time bomb.

we are replacing a lot of the young migrating with new young immigrants.

the CSO stats from the census will confirm this year.

It’s been a few weeks since that article was published about the small development in Mayo, but am I right in saying the developers built them, then sold on the houses? If that is the case, they were motivated to keep costs as low as possible, would that motivation exist if they were working for the State?.

Developers will undoubtedly be rewarded if they are employed directly by the State to build large State managed projects, what could be better? They would know that cost over runs are the State’s problem, the developer will get paid either way, and like BAM, if the State threatens to pull the plug, the developer threatens to walk, leaving the State in the unenviable position of having to negotiate again with another developer who knows that the State will be in a position of desperation.

I get that you have this naive opinion of how things should be, but it is not based in reality. You are blinded by this need to prevent the private sector from profiting, to the point that you are willing to waste more money by ignoring the benefits incentivising the building of houses quickly and at what is likely to be a lower cost than letting a bunch of beaurocrats get turned over by seasoned developers.

Does anyone have a good explanation of why the UK property prices are going up? It just seems crazy with their interest rates and it doesn't make sense to me.

Mix of massive inflation and lack of supply, cost of materials to build etc. similar to here.

a genuine disgrace

Is there anyone going to jail or is it just the usual corrupt crooks running the country?

Government policy has turned land and housing into a deposit account product rather than places to live for our citizens.

The next eviction ban to be lifted needs to be this government evicted from power. They are the problem not the solution

It is a bad sign when our best hope is for our own young take a one way ticket out.

exactly.

The govt need to do more to support key workers though.

These stories spin the truth somewhat as everyone at these events is interested in moving abroad in the first place.

That said, there is a genuine teacher shortage in Dublin and its getting worse.

Yet conversely, the country is dripping with money and tax surplus is through the roof.

Will the govt finally invest more into housing and pop the rent bubble?

The govt are staring at an open goal. They have the money, but will they reform the planning system and invest heavily in housing? Or will they keep on keepin' on.

Agreed except for the tax piece. A newly minted teacher in Ireland on 40k would pay very little tax. Less than 20% effective rate.

Effective income taxes start to get high on people earnings €60/70k+ in Ireland but are very very low on everyone else. There is no scope to reduce taxes on relatively lower income earners and narrow the tax base even further.

The 50k/60k + income bracket do not pay for everything

PAYE is only 1/3 of the tax take, so 2/3 of the money that pays for everything does not come from income tax

Vat generates nearly as much tax as Paye. Low/middle income workers in general spend all their income so will pay higher vat as a percentage of their total income.

The country is kept ticking over by an educated, flexible, income stable at the low to middle income levels that help generate significant corporate tax

Tax spending is often spent in a way that drives up rent and house prices which is a benefit to asset prices held more often by higher income earners and very costly to low mid income earners.

Tax spending is used to incentivise the purchase of cars, refurbishment of homes etc which lower income groups in general can't afford

Higher income groups can avail of very beneficial tax breaks to build up there pension while lower income groups are less likely to afford any type of pension.

All this before we mention that lower income groups are more likely to be renting. What's left after the rent is paid?

A bit less of the poor mouth, with a small bit of digging, again it's another narrative that does not pass the sniff test