Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Interesting post.

I don't think you're right in the way you characterise the Farmers Alliance as a Country versus City thing.

Listening to them it's more about

a. Producers being crucified by middle men and

b. Green policy being imposed on them in ways that don't even make sense.

That second one - the top down imposition on communities by an out of touch government - is what makes them allies not enemies of the urban protestors.

The Farmers Alliance are exercised about greenways and green policy demands for the same reason East Wall is out protesting about the direct provision centres being foisted on them.

I see the energy from the protests of the last few months is now starting to be cashed out in more structured alliances and arrangements - the parents rights/anti trans groups (Aontu meeting about this this evening in Artane), communities with DP centres moving on to legal objections. And especially, this Farmers Alliance and the the Rural Independents initiative.

Still scattered, like you'd expect from a ground up movement, but starting to mature and move on.

Most importantly they're now organising in ways that may be a political threat and that's what gets results. The IFA are already responding to the Farmers Alliance by criticising green policy themselves.

I've been thinking a lot about what the urban equivalent of the Farmers Alliance and the Rural Indo's initiative would be.

Particularly the messaging.

You've got housing, emigration, hospital lists as the main issues of the day. As PBP will tell you. But although they're all tied in with immigration you can't just come out and say Immigration!

That marginalises you. You get written off as sounding like the National Party.

Not saying that's a well founded reaction, but it's just how the message comes across to the mainstream right now.

Then there's also the other very strong message that this movement isn't about left and right, it's top bottom. It's about communities being imposed on by government. You can even tell NGO people that's what East Wall is about and get a positive reaction.

Is there any way to combine the two messages. Yes.

Communities are having housing lists, rental accommodation, schools, GP practices, overrun by the imposition on them of this unpopular policy.

There is no concern for communities being shown by government and they're being made to suffer.

Run on that in a local election.

Surprisingly in the clip I saw of Verona Murphy at the Farmer's Alliance meeting she was making exactly this argument.

Watch this space. There might even be candidates you wouldn't be embarrassed to vote for.

Migration pact was voted on by MEP's today.

It is also aimed to speed up the return of migrants

Italy seem to be getting totally battered with record numbers this year already.

My point would be that these protests (East Wall, Drimnagh, Ballymun etc) were not organic and were not local community led. They were orchestrated on social media by outside parties. There was definitely attendance by local people of course - but given that the counter demonstrations by pro-immigration people also took place in the exact same communities means we shouldn't necessarily be overly swayed by any of it.

Besides, there was an interview with a community leader who decided to attend the East Wall protest as an observer saying he didn't recognise a single person at the protest - nobody who was involved in the local community centre, homeless services, youth groups, outreach programmes, boxing club etc. They may very well have been locals, but didn't seem to participating in anything at a local community level.

Government told they have to provide accommodation anyone who arrives the country. How did this "17" year old man make it all the way to Ireland?

A clown country

The community leader was interviewed on RTE Radio around the time of the East Wall protest (on Drivetime I think). Said he decided to along as an observer to see just what was being said at these anti-refugee protests and who was involved. But he didn't recognise any of the protesters and didn't have any sense they were actively involved in the community, even though they may well have been local residents.

The modus operandi of these anti-asylum seeker protest organisers is well understood. Put up posts all over social media saying there will be a march at such and such a place and at such and such a time, but then try and make it look like that that the protest was organic and was thought of and organised by the local community. Then go along and live stream the protest and put lots of videos up about the 'silent majority'. Interestingly though, these protests seem to have gone out of fashion in the last couple of months....it may be that the authorities quickly wised up to what was going on.

I don't want to demonise these people. I did allow they could be honestly wrong. Like you, I think there is a way to combine the two messages - by running on a unified pro-Irish party message that addresses the concerns of all Irish people, be they living in a housing estate or a one-off build. And that problems is mass migration and the challenges it poses. As opposed to a messaging or branding (i.e. "rural") which invites internal sniping between Irish people.

We can all see how the English and the Americans have been misdirected into intensely bitter, completely inconsequential infighting about fox hunting or gun rights that offers the panacea of avoiding tackling their actual existential concerns. We Irish should be well attuned to this given the only difference between FF and FG was what side of the civil war their grandparents were on.

I'm extremely cynical that when Irish dissatisfaction with the ruling regime erupts into grassroots protests that all of a sudden a "rural" political movement arises to pretend that the pressing issue of the day is that farming is regulated to appease these eejits in Dublin. Which then invites a "urban" political movement to pretend the issue is that not enough houses are being built to house the world and that every field in Ireland needs to be concreted over.

Its all very comforting - as you say yourself the unique selling point of this "rural" party is that "Hey, we're not the National Party. We pretend to be against the regime but we love mass migration so you don't have to be embarrassed to vote for us. You're just dissatisfied because farming has regulations" It seems like a pressure release valve for Irish peoples discontent, into inconsequential nonsense while the regime ideology is left unchallenged.

Mass emigration used to be the release valve, now I fear it will be dumb, divisive, American/UK style "politics".

It was never just a trading bloc. The very earliest efforts talked about common defence and political union - they were drafted by men who had lived through a near existential war waged primarily in Europe. They weren't motivated entirely by dividends or tariffs. There was a (brief) time it was for the interests of European countries and European peoples. The EU is just a vehicle that represents the ideology of the member states. The EU is not doing things to the member states - it has no independent power. It is not sovereign. It is a tool wielded by power. Like a gun, it can be used to do good as well as bad. It depends on who is holding it.

Look at the UK, they left the EU via Brexit and the waves of mass migration which motivated Brexit never altered. If anything they increased. The problem with mass migration into the UK always sat in London, not Brussels. But UK voters are trapped into voting for three parties who all support the same ruling ideology and only disagree on inconsequential nonsense. Whatever party they vote for, mass migration remains endless. That is their "democracy".

What annoys me about this Afghan asylum seeker case it that he travelled 6000km to an Island on the edge of the Atlantic. Why didn't he apply for Asylum in Iran / Turkmenistan / Pakistan?

Or if that was too 'close to home' why not try the oil rich gulf states like Saudi Arabia / UAE / Oman?

If he was truly worried that his life was in danger (or whatever story he's peddling) surely moving to one of these neighbouring states with a common Arabic / Muslim society would be less stressful? But like a lot of 'genuine refugees' I'm sure he knew that the easy life was here in Ireland - deposit sob story collect free house / dole and if you don't get what you want - free legal aid! The state will pay for you to sue us for your 'entitlements' and if your asylum application is refused - hey no problem - more free legal aid!

Completely!

That ruling just opens the door even wider. Our first obligation is to house the refugee & not our own! Is it any wonder that racism in on the rise in this country.

Well thats bullshit. Threats to burn places down, shouting outside where people live, blocking food delivery. None of that is in any way peaceful.

Would you not think that a 10 percentage point uptick in a matter of months is statistically significant?

I work in the big data space. I can assure you that a 10 point swing is highly stat-sig..

I also work in analytics, I find it astonishing people can dismiss actual tangible data points on this issue when it doesn't suit their narrative