Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Just looking at the Munster team for tomorrow. No Carberry! Wtf! Has that hype train derailed? Is he out of favor in Limerick? Has Rowntree lost confidence? Can we get a refund for the Graham Henry input?

I've thought all along that RB was the better out half. I think we may be lucky that we kept Ross.

In more hype news....... read an article yesterday, where a former bokke international stated that VanGrann could be the next Boks coach. Now there's a hypetrain with no engine.

Carbery's issues all run together. The coaching he received under Van Graan and Larkham wasn't of the same calibre as under Lancaster. That in itself wouldn't necessarily derail a career, but what he needed was a solid attacking structure to play in.

Persistent injury is also a significant factor in his plateauing. He missed a lot of time where he should have been gathering experience at playing 10. When he came back he continued to struggle and I think just lost confidence in himself.

Given their ages the coaching those two received during the grim VG years would be very different being young players than the first choice 10.

Carbury was dealing with it during his key development and experience gaining years, all while being exposed at the coalface.

We've seen some players drop bad coaching and battle scars quickly, while others struggle for a longer time and can be completely ruined.

It is all made worse by Carbury potentially not being physically the player he was coming through either, given his injury battles.

Well that would be crap!

Crowley started his first game last season while Carbury had four seasons at the forefront of the environment, where he would have had to try to completely embrace it outside of brief escapes to Ireland camp.

Being injured doesn't mean he would have stopped being in meetings and at sessions, if anything that time could be even worse because you aren't on the pitch to work out how you can incorporate what is being asked with your skillset - especially if you then have to try to adapt further if your body isn't the same on your return.

You might have some argument with Healy, though he still wasn't in it as long as Carbury, but it wasn't as if he started the season on fire with new coaching. As I said, bad coaching impacts players differently and then you add the potential lingering injuries and huge additional pressure on Carbury.

I'm sure Munster fans will see it differently but if I was Leinster I'd be using him, along with to a lesser extent Conway and Jones, to dissuade top young Leinster players to jump ship - throw in Keatley who didn't go directly but got the worst treatment.

There is and there isn't.

Surprised you're so flippant about 'meetings' - I didn't think I needed to spell out all the work that a pro in such a pivotal position would/should be doing to ensure they are ready to hit the ground running when fit - building off his year of experience as the starter, something the other two weren't starting from. Being injured isn't like being off sick from work where you can put your feet up.

He also had multiple long roads to recovery which meant he would have been involved in a lot of training sessions over those 2 years even if they weren't full contact and he wasn't togging out in matches.

Good to leave it there, as it is hard for me to change my opinion when you havent really posted any details to really back up your opinion.

For Ireland, I think he really, really blotted his copybook against Fiji. Google Farrell's fairly pointed comments after the game, I think that was when he lost the trust of the Ireland coaches. He got dropped by Ireland for the 6N and has been in a downward spiral ever since. For Munster his dropping came much later, he was still starting for Munster until not that long ago, the Sharks was pretty much the first big game of the season he didn't start and that was in April.

There's probably 5 players who could fight their way into the first choice 23 next season on the field.

Plenty though have important roles in mix and match teams for league games.

Will Connors or Deegan are definitely talents. Both capped internationals despite the heavy congestion ahead of them.

Byrne and Milne will be fighting for backup loose head jersey next season.

Tommy O'Brien preinjury may have been ahead of Jimmy O'Brien so he needs games and time to see where he is now.

In general though the best of the Leinster squad is staying behind or injured.

The game isn't listed on Premier Sports 1 or 2 on Sky today. They're showing Liverpoo v Forest and the FA Cup semi final. I know it's on TG4 but I'd rather watch with English commentary. Maybe it will be a match choice or something on Premier

I suppose it's easy to second guess. But was Carberry 2nd best all this time? I haven't thought he's looked comfortable as a 10. It begs the question, what are the coaches seeing? It also raises the point, if Joey was viewed as the option after J10, Ireland haven't produced much in out half in a few years.

Ross was thrown into the wolf's den for his 1st start. He was harshly judged after that match and despite being very solid and dependable, was not given a chance until recently. As it stands, we as a nation are not blessed with top quality or even high quality 10's. There's lads on the way that will be good but, there's been little over the last 5 years or so.

Rowntree should continue to work with Carberry. I wouldn't throw him onto the scrap heap. There's a lot of experience in JC and maybe with the focus off him, he can start rebuilding confidence. There's no harm in him being the back up at Munster. Another chance will come. Carberry is versatile and he can play fb at a very high level. He's well worth his spot in the roster. Bear in mind, a loss of form or an injury and he's back in the international squad. A move overseas is an option. Would he command a high salary? I don't think so.