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The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    They should still value it and if they are gone what’s the alternative? We don’t have them, and all teams fighting for two cups instead of six? 

    Any neutral that sits down to watch any live match wants to see teams playing with an edge, hunger, desire, passion and that has been seen in plenty of the Provincial championship games this year and I'd hope the distracting group stage can provide similar games as it will mean a good all round new format to embrace for the years ahead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,077 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    With the way things are going this year provincial champions which are S1's will have a great chance of making QF proper. They will have S3's at home in first match, and then away to S4 before having S2 at a neutral venue

    It looks like S3 will be the next strongest grouping, of hey will need to travel for match No1 against S1 and then play S2 before playing S4 at a neutral venue.

    S2 will play S4 at home which may give these teams a chance if a result against D2 teams. I definitely think it's an advantage to win or make your provincial final and I see nothing that indicates that teams threw games rather I see teams that played poorly on the day losing

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    A knee jerk reaction. Provincial titles still carry value. 12 teams are capable of winning them. Winning them usually give counties confidence that they are on track to challenge for an All-Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,664 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Leitrim are a poor side. Sligo are a fair bit better in fairness, and apart from 15 or 20 minutes during their league game in Carrick are a fair bit better I'd say. They dropped off in that second bald and nearly got caught out, but we're able to kick in and scored the last 3 or 4 points when needed that day.

    The big difference is that they are trying hard and improving down the grades and showing signs at schools, minor and now U20, or real progress, while Leitrim keep going back to take lads out of semi retirement that won their coinrtqoth Mohill 5 or 6 years ago

    I'd expect sligo will beat NY well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Leitrim have been challenging for promotion from Division 4 the last two years. They lost out to Sligo on penalties in last year's Tailteann quarter-finals. Some of the negative reaction is way over the top.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,664 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    I expect Sligo to beat NY for the reasons I outlined above. From seeing them and LM in the flesh a few weeks ago, they are a considerably better side than LM in my opinion, and are heading in a different direction than LM. From watching the full NY/LM game, I think there will be lots of goal chances for Sligo, with their direct runners against an NY defence that conceded several goal chances to LM on a smaller pitch in the Bronx.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,448 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I think it will take a while for teams to assess the value or otherwise of winning a provincial championship in the new format.

    We will see whether being at home to the S3 in the first game and away to the S4 in the second is valuable.

    But if you look back at the history of the old qualifier system between 2001 and 2017 you will notice that as the game became more "professional" in the 2010s the value of winning the province went up.

    In preparing a team for a championship run, winning the province allowed you to be in far more control of your own destiny.

    By taking the province seriously you knew when your games would be and where they would be, and if you won the province you knew you would be playing a qualifier in the QF and who your potential SF opponent was if you got that far.

    That was far better than landing in the qualifiers where you don't know from week to week who or where you will be playing and which side of the draw you will be on in the All Ireland series, the backdoor offered too many surprises.

    So as the game became more "professional" in the last decade planning was a big part of it.

    I contend that the reason that Mayo did not reach the All Ireland final in 2022 was not because they lost to Kerry in the QF, but because they lost to Galway in the Connacht QF.

    And I think the numbers show it.

    In the ten season from 2001 to 2010 the four provincial winners never all made the SF. The best they could do was three in 2002 and 2006.

    In 2008 only one provincial winner made the SF and in 2010 none.

    But in the seven seasons from 2011 to 2017 all four made it on three occasions, and three made it on three occasions.

    In 2016 only two made it.

    The full list is below

    Edit: I forgot to mention 2022 which was a return to the qualifier system.

    In 2022 all four provincial winners got to the SF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,518 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Fond memories of the complete over-reaction in here to the freak event of 2010 - death of the provincials as teams will deliberately throw them as winners have no chance against battle-hardened qualifiers. Fun times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    The Leinster finalists are going to play over the next two weekends, have a weekend off, contest the Leinster final, have a weekend off and then start the group stage. That's a consistent schedule to plan for. The reward is more games.

    If a player is carrying a knock, managers will have to balance their needs. For counties already qualified through the league it would be an unnecessary risk. That's the reward of a higher league ranking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭manofwisdom


    Theoneeyedman got it spot on about the Sligo v New York game.

    Sligo basically put the game to bed early when 1-3 to 0-1 ahead. New York lost their heads completely 2nd half when they knew they would get hammered. Sligo 2-16 New York 0-6 it finished.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Although usually they are close games I think Galway are going to do a number on Roscommon tomorrow.

    Galway by 8.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,293 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Logistically I'm sure the association are secretly happy.

    New York get a bye to the TC QF where as they would be in the group stage of Sam which would be a nightmare fixture wise.

    The whole thing is a joke. The continued participation of New York is based on them being nice enough to lose all the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,448 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    The whole thing is a joke. The continued participation of New York is based on them being nice enough to lose all the time.

    Well it's less of a joke than in used to be.

    Giving NY entry into the TC has meant that they have to rely on players with legal status in the US.

    This will allow them to plan long-term.

    No more picking a former inter county or good club player who happens to be in town working on the sites with his cousin for a year because he can't figure what he wants to do in life.

    But if they have players with legal status they know that they will be around for longer than a year, and they can develop US born players as well.

    I said it before here that I think the development of GAA Go could be a huge difference maker in getting second generation Irish Americans involved in the GAA.

    Pre GAA Go if the Irish parents wanted to bring their American born kids to watch All Ireland senior championship GAA they would have to bring them to a pub on a Sunday morning.

    That's not ideal.

    But with GAA Go they don't have to leave the house, they can watch any time.

    That will open up the senior championship competitions to a whole new US audience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    I think the handicap for the Kerry v Tipp game was 20 points. Final result Kerry 0-25 v Tipp 0-5. It's uncanny how often the bookies call the spread right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,940 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It a mixture of the wisdom of the crowds and the actuaries working off the betting movements I assume. You can be damn sure they are going to be on a winner regardless most of the time.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    It's safe to say we all would have seen a big Kerry win today but to get it bang on the 20 points for the spread is mad and it happens so often.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,940 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It is all worked out based on past performance the betting market, bit of maths - all to leave the bookies with the edge so they win no matter what most of the time. Any odds you get from a bookie are normally odds less than what they they should be given so they are almost always on a winner.

    Dublin is plus 15 v Laois I see. Does this mean that Leinster is slightly more difficult than Munster?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    Dublin are minus 15 i would think. Tipp have lost the majority of their team who won Munster couple years ago. They were relegated to Div 4 and are at a low ebb. I would say Laois are bette than Tipp now. Dublin have nearly always been around the 15 pt handicap in Leinster last decade or so. And usually cover it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,077 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,077 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Ya Kerry seldom go for goals against weaker teams unless the chance is one on one.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Laois certainly had a better spring than Tipp, in that they narrowly failed to get promotion from Division Four, whereas the Premier were relegated to the bottom tier, so the spread difference appears on the money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,293 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Only scoring 5 points must be awful demoralizing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    Last years Munster football final Kerry beat Limerick by 23 points, 1-28 v 0-8 so Tipp minus a host of players and their best forward Sweeney did slightly better than that hammering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭elefant


    Rian O Neill should have been sent off for that tackle on McKiernan. Absolutely filthy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    Munster football is not competetive. I'd get rid of the provincials.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3



    Agree. Kerry would have beaten Limerick in that final last year by 43 if they wanted to. And they would do likewise to Tipp today if they really wanted. Good competitive game in Gaelic Grounds right now, Limerick V Clare. But God help whoever wins it as they play Kerry in the final. (Clare lead by 3 at HT). Another mauling will ensue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    Yes i agree Kerry if they really wanted to would have put 30+ points on Tipp today. Forgot Clare were playing Limerick tonight. I would like to see Colm Collins lead his men out for a Munster final this year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    Tuned into Clare FM for this evening's Limerick v Clare match that sounded like a great contest that went to wire. The winner knew they were into the Munster final and All Ireland group stage and loser into the tailteann cup. Clare 1-16 to 0-16 winners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Decent effort from Limerick, I thought Clare would hammer them. Probably doesn't bode well for the munster final though



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,293 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It's sad for the Limerick players to lose such an exciting game but I think we are better off in the Tailteann Cup and now enter it with confidence renewed and as a top seed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,448 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Does Cavan' s loss to Armagh guarantee Sam Maguire football for any, Cork and Kildare I'm guessing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    An over reaction. The league placings should have been used for seeding provincial draws. Clare and Limerick drawn against Tipperary and Waterford. Kerry and Cork drawn against the quarter-final winners.

    While Tipperary lost today, they played Division 3 this year. They got a game today against a quality opponent. They now move on to the Tailteann Cup which is there level at this time. People will be critical but it is positive to give teams a tough game. Hurling is too sanitised where opportunities are limited for a Carlow or Down to play at least one game against a tough opponent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    Think it will be close unless the current Roscommon system has a meltdown and they lack the intensity they brought to Castlebar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Limerick beat Clare on penalties last year. It was always going to be a close game. Massive reward for Clare and fully deserved after they beat Cork who were the second ranked Munster team after the league.

    Disappointing evening for Cavan who are now out of the All-Ireland. Does that guarantee Louth's place in the All-Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    Clare was missing a few important players for that championship match last year including Sexton who scored 1-4 tonight. Louth who finished 3rd in Div 2 I think was pretty much in the All Ireland group stage. Kildare and Meath still sweating it out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,293 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    But Clare would have just beaten Cork anyway so why would that seeding matter ?

    We tried the games against big teams in hurling thing and it got people nowhere. Hurling is harder for a weaker team to compensate by being well drilled due to a wider scoring area. Same as how soccer is easier than football in that regard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,293 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Btw don't forget the Saturday Game is on now covering tonights games rather than tomorrow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Based on the last decade that makes sense but Roscommon had that Mayo game lined up for 6 months, had a tired Mayo team,ref and weather on their side.

    Roscommon won their all ireland in Castlebar.

    Very strong Galway team with a really strong bench will do them badly I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3



    Totally agree. A Titanic battle tonight. Great credit due to Limerick going so close in a game where beforehand i honestly felt we would do well to keep it within a 10 point defeat. Walked out of Gaelic Grounds delighted with the performance and not at all disappointed with the loss. A hammering from Kerry would've awaited in the Munster Final. Tailteann Cup is where we belong for now and may be capable of taking a scalp or two. Clare are a top 10 football side and i expect them to give a decent performance in the final. Best of luck to them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,293 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    If the team really are back to the level Billy Lee had them at I think we can take the Tailteann Cup never mind a scalp. Should definitely be targeting going pretty deep in the tournament.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Kerry might have played Limerick instead of Tipperary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    There were some results that could have knocked out Louth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    Roscommon had a full competitive Div 1 campaign to play which they just missed out on league final spot. Mayo's fitness has been good this year which included a big championship like training block before the league started, plus a number of starters was rested v Monaghan in round 7. So I wouldn't use tiredness or the ref as an excuse for Mayo losing. It was simply one top 3 Div 1 team beating another and Roscommon did beat Mayo in Castlebar in the previous championship encounter.

    Galway are no doubt a strong team and if allowed or any opposition defend poorly against them they can and will produce a big score.



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Ragwort and Stones


    Just watching the 'Saturday' Game. A fan of both hurling and football.

    Donal óg's hurling eulogy and bombast made me want to knock his head off! Hurling the greatest game, on a world stage. Gooch Cooper and Ciaran Whelan had to sit through.

    He's one arrogant pr*ck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Football counties fight for Division status. Hurling counties have been given an easy passage to remain in Division 1. If hurling was so great they would have a more competitive Division 1.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Respect to Roscommon,their small pick and their league position.They have potential to have an upset in them every 5 years or so.

    I don't think it was an upset for them to beat Mayo.That was a 50/50 game and they came out on top.

    Galway have a full 18/19 players to pick from and have named arguably the strongest team in the country for this game.

    Normally,I'd say Roscommon are a good bet to beat Galway in Hyde Park but as usual will be nowhere when the big boy football happens later in the year.However this year having watched both teams I'm thinking Galway will blitz them tomorrow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,293 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985



    I did think it was a good idea to have them all there for that conversation and I liked that the show went over and back between sports rather than the Sunday Game thing of having one sport wait half the night.

    Football isn't as competitive as people like to think. The need for a tiered championship has been a long time coming but football fans can't admit it's a closed shop too (just not as much as hurling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,940 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I didn't see it but I can have a good guess at what it was like.

    That is the thing about 'out and out' hurling people, they basically turn into 'hurling evangelist's spreading the 'gospel'. I always remember one years ago it was Liam Griffin (on a current affairs programme for some reason) and almost with tears in his eyes said with real sincerity - 'There are some people in this studio that never have got to hold a hurl in their lives'. And he deadly serious!

    I have never heard that type of stuff from football people.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Ragwort and Stones


    The sheer arrogance hit me. I know football has problems but the massive hurling score lines and half back line points aren't entertaining.

    I'm not belittling Limerick, they're a brilliant team. But it's so ignorant to be as blinded as Cusack. Gooch Cooper is the equal of TJ Reid etc in my book. We can admire them all.



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