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Gangland Shootings part 4 - Read OP before posting - updated 30/12/23

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,196 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    It might be Patsy for Senior and Patrick for Junior in the courts and newspapers, but we always knew Jr. as Patsy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭dashdoll


    I'm catching up on Nicola Tallant on the Late Late. I mean I absolutely agree that it was the right decision for Gerry to be acquitted this week but my god she is up Gerry Hutch's hole. Definitely some bias there though, she's awful fond of him.

    Are we allowed to speculate who the three men dressed as Gardai were? Iv heard MB (deceased) mentioned, JG and who do we think the third was....someone else local or a random gun for hire/ Eastern European/IRA man?



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    I haven’t read (and I know he’s not popular with all) the Williams book on the Monk for a while. But the Monk who has no convictions since 1983 was said in that book to have mentors. One mentor was Eamonn Kelly. Other mentors were older brothers. The Monk is 6/8 children I think and for now perhaps the last two children were sisters. Derek Hutch senior was a convicted rapist who confessed to a murder, that think recent enough reports query whether the man said to be killed is dead, before he committed suicide. As per another post on this board Patsy Hutch is said to have spent a small amount of time in jail in relation to an alleged fraud in 1980s. Not sure if on remand or convicted. Eddie Hutch in 2016 was described as not having been involved in criminality for a number of years. He had some historic convictions according to Irish Independent when he was shot:-

    Eddie Hutch Snr was not considered to be a violent criminal and tended to stay in the background. He had a number of convictions for small-time fraud and shop lifting.

    However, he was suspected of helping to launder some of the proceeds from the heists masterminded by his brother Gerry 'The Monk' Hutch



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101



    Dowdall accused Mago Gately and Hutch of being 2 of the 3 'TACs'. That's a matter of public record from the trial so can't see why it couldn't be posted here. If you go back on this thread (and predecessors) - who the 3 'TACs' are is raised in allegations posted multiple times by multiple posters often in 2019/ 2020. There is a fair degree of consistency over TAC 1 and TAC 2; TAC 3 is more uncertain. Some allege a long term Hutch family associate, not a family member, who is serving a long prison sentence for armed robbery was TAC 3-but they have been reported in the media as denying that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    Dowdall calls one or the other on tapes played at trial ‘ Pat’



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭Jizique


    MB? Was it not NCH and JG with KM the likely third, even though he has denied it and is now locked up for a Clonskeagh job



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    Consistent allegations on this thread and it’s predecessors that the identity of TAC1-2-3 are as you suggest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,074 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    She only fond of if she makes money from a story.

    Ryan before the break said she talked to Gerry after the verdict so to get people watching.

    Then in interview she says that in the building they (her and Gerry) were shooting the breeze when she asked when she asked if he was going up north or Spain. He smiled at her for asking such a cheeky question and said he was going out the front door.

    Do you really believe this happened.?

    She was shooting the breeze with Gerry that most of the time she calls the Monk and false information.

    He is hardly going to go Boards or twitter and she Is lying.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There were some fairly serious allegations involving rape levelled on here towards Eddie, any truth in that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    He was said to be very well liked in the inner city in final years of his life. Historic criminal record outlined earlier. He was also imprisoned for breaching barring order against Jane/ Jenny Hutch also now dead. No clue re rape allegations.



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jesus a barring order, combined with an imprisonment for breaking it, really does fit in with the allegation made previously in this thread of rape.

    Plenty of rapists are "well liked" in the community when their family/gang control it with an iron fist. Sure you only have to walk a few hundred meters down to sheriffer for proof of that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    know nothing about a rape. Lots of people break barring orders and aren’t rapists. Don’t know circumstances in 80s of him being imprisoned for breaking barring order. Have looked on thread for past allegations re rape- can’t find them. Did see this by someone else in 2020- ‘ Williams portrays Eddie as heavily involved in armed robberies in Gerry’s early days in the 80s.’

    Someone also claims Eddie was the Hutch member beaten up by Mel Cox. Yet another poster claimed that the murderer of Mel Cox was a now deceased male member of Hutch family. There is more than one male family member who was alive at time of Cox murder who is now dead.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It shows a history of abuse against women 1) warranting the barring order and 2) continuing with that pattern even after the order and needing to be imprisoned. This was in the 80's? I can't imagine how high the bar was to get a barring order and be imprisoned from it then.


    Search for Neddy not Eddie, it was 100% said on this thread although maybe not this part



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 1 pharmo


    Who's john kennedy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Updaparish


    A detective in Waterford topped himself few years ago when he was involved in some swinging group where some woman died and he helped clean up and move her car..



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,247 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Surely GSOC needs to be investigated by an objective body?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,131 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    Do you think a seriously depressed individual with suicidal ideation is capable of having rational thoughts or emotions that someone in their right mind would ? Of course, the aftermath of any death by suicide is messy for those left to deal with that mess, primarily trying to figure out the reasons why it has happened. It's unfair to criticise those who decide to take their own lives by branding them as selfish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    John Mooney in today’s Sunday Times; on Garda corruption-

    ’.. the Hutch organisation had morphed from a local gang into a powerful and entrepreneurial force, though few were aware of its existence. There was intelligence to suggest it had penetrated the gardai. Rumours had circulated following the collapse of the case against Patrick Hutch Jr, who had been charged with being the gunman dressed as a woman, after the senior garda leading the case committed suicide. But the first evidence of corruption emerged in about April 2021, following the issue of a European warrant for Hutch’s arrest for Byrne’s murder. To the alarm of the Irish and Spanish security services, when details of the warrant were circulated on the gardai’s IT system Hutch — who had a flight booked from Malaga to Lanzarote — vanished.


    On Dowdall;


    ’Some in the intelligence community felt he was a double agent acting on Hutch’s orders. Dowdall denied he knew anything about the Regency plan but the earlier warnings went unheeded, multiple sources said. “He invented a story which distanced himself from Hutch, organised crime and the Regency. The audio clearly showed he was involved in the attack and the Hutch gang. Gerard Hutch wouldn’t have used him if he didn’t trust him,” a source said.’

    He also reveals Flat Cap was a long time informant for Gardai, PSNI & MI5 but had been deregistered by Gardai before attack.



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    Breda Power in today’s Sunday Times; on Patsy Hutch-

    It is unlikely you would find two garda squad cars on the entire length of O’Connell Street, where drugs imported by criminal gangs are openly sold and used, last Tuesday afternoon. And last Wednesday, as gardai continue to monitor the area of a man who denies all involvement in criminal activity and hasn’t been inside a court since his teens



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9 LostWeekend




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭john boye


    She looked absolutely thrilled at the door when he walked out of court.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Exactly and anyone bereaved by suicide knows same



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    As she and others said. If he went down, it would have been farcical. Not enough concrete evidence to convict for the crime he was charged with. Would have made a mockery of the special criminal court.

    Whatever other crimes he may or may not have been responsible for, he wasn't on trial for those.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,978 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    In fairness justice was done, if he'd went down there would have been riots.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭MickyPearse


    The Kinahan's claims that the Gardai were in on the regency and purposely stayed away on the day doesn't sound like the biggest conspiracy ever now. It grows more legs every day! We suspect there's at least 4 or 5 very senior officials who were in the Hutch's pocket. No journalist is going to go down that road though and look into it



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    There were still legacy issues over funding / budgets in 2016. On the basis of what John Mooney writes about it seems quite likely they were told (inexplicably) there would be no Gardai there. Don’t believe there was some higher end scenario where they arranged for no Gardai to be there. Hypothetically someone like Spud Murphy manages to talk to former colleagues without raising suspicion. Asks allowing for the shooting at Red Cow I suppose some of the lads will be at the Regency. Serving Guard with a high tolerance for a retired Guard’s questions replies ‘ believe it or not no there’s no approval for that mainly for budgetary reasons.’ Murphy or whoever did it (if it happened) may have sounded bored in retirement / missing the job. May have been Murphy (or whoever) asking someone who asked someone else in a way that made it less suspicious than a direct query. At what point when serving and retired Guards meet does the chat raise an eye brow- probably easy enough to find out quite a lot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭MickyPearse


    I agree that its more likely that the Hutches were made aware that there would be no Gardai presence on the day rather than literally ordering the Gardai to stay away. Either way its an astonishing **** up for that information to be passed on to a crime gang. It'll all come out someday!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,604 ✭✭✭obi604




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  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭Spencer101


    GUBU territory the ex GSOC investigator according to Irish Mail is tenant/ boyfriend of a Hutch family member. Chances are as investigator is in his late 60s this is one of the Monk’s sisters/ sister-in-laws. Investigator came into job from another country. When you were new to job and telling people you rented in (say) Buckingham Street or Portland Row- obviously no alarm bells went off with any of his colleagues.



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