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  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2


    Nah it's perfect....something needs to be done..."Sorry can't..not our fault though!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2


    Bit of news, Spain has lifted a group of Irish people out in a larger set of foreign nationals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    It seems from reports hostilities on the ground have intensified with a near collapse in communications across the city. The window to extract- what must be several thousand expats - seems to be closing fast. It is unclear if some force eg the UK holds the airport and what its operational state is. Kabul increasingly looks more like a picnic in comparison….



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I wonder will this change any thinking in buying more the one transport casa?

    Edit: it looks like MM maybe trying to do something!




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    This actually happened some years ago, as the DF were preparing to participate in a peace enforcement op overseas(Macedonia I think). Then China Vetoed the UNSC motion, and everyone stood down and waited for the next UNIFIL trip.

    Its not just the Russians and Chinese though. The USA has also vetoed a considerable number of UNSC resolutions relating to the ongoing situation in Palestine.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yeah MM said this morning on radio that he intends to pursue a strategic lift partnership, presumably along the lines of the two (?) that exist across 6 or 7 States on the continent.

    It doesn't have to be a NATO apparatus of course, though the usual fools will be equating it to acquiring ICBMs and putting them in the Burren, but however. There aren't many neutrals left of course, but maybe an opportunity exists to partner with Austria, Switzerland and Malta or something along those lines. Obviously a France/ Spain / Portugal combination would suit us most but that's for a conversation at EU level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Malta doesn’t really add anything, they are in the same state as we are with no lift capability, though if we did develop something that might help them as well I suppose given our contacts with them, as for anyone else? It makes sense of course for us and arguably at an EU level to build this, and it’s not the first time it’s been talked about, but again surely we would have to up what we could bring to such an arrangement?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Let's be honest, we may not have pilots or hangarage, but we can well afford an A400, or a half share in one without any difficulty.

    We also have Shannon which is an ideal strategic lift hub.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42


    I think pretty much everyone could agree with that, as with everything with the DF is comes down to public and political will, the options are there and well understood at this stage, just needs us to actually do something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Is MM talking about the EATC that the air corps wanted to join if they had got the two World food casas? Either way no one will want us joining there party if we have only one transport aircaft.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Wonder if they are still an option? Even as a short term stop gap?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42


    This is a bit of a new twist, with “a Government spokesperson” saying that the two MPAs when they arrive can be reconfigured for such emergencies for more cargo capacity, wonder how quick that would be in such an emergency situation?

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/0424/1378676-sudan-evacuation/



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Minister why have we not got are new casa aircraft watching the russian ships. Mmmm we had to send them to africa!



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    They can, but it would be a sub-standard solution for all concerned.

    The 235s were grand for the odd air ambulance flight or repatriation a prisoner, but with all the consoles and other shite on board, how many could be evacuated, 20 or 30?

    It's a mistake for the Government to bring that sort of a fudge into the mix.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Agreed, think it might be a kneejerk reaction to the increased attention to us having nothing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yeah poor enough for a Government press response, its not a solution so just shut up. Besides, if you're explaining you're losing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Seems that Kabul and Sudan might have finally managed to start at least some thinking about the Triple Lock, or at least changing the upper number that can be deployed without it?

    I mean it’s a given that the small Left parties will say no (do they say anything else in terms of Defence?), but between the government parties, labour and SF by the sounds of it maybe?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    SF will say yes to anything now. Mary Lou stood up in from the the Institute of European Affairs yesterday and waxed lyrical about the positive effect of 65 years of European treaty based partnership. Hers, the party of historical No campaigning against all EEC/EU treaties....

    I'll be surprised if she isn't at home of an evening now practising her Napoleonic pose in her M&S blazer. Talk about a Damascene conversion.

    But as regards the Triple Lock, it shouldn't be reformed, it should be abolished. As a Sovereign State, only our elected Government and Parliament should have approval to deploy our Defence Forces as needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Good article by Collins, clearly points out some of the humbug and claptrap that passed for policy and political level discussion here on defence and security matters. In the past there may been more of an acceptance by other countries of us abdicating our responsibilities, but when we now clearly have the ability to fund this ourselves and indeed when our energy ICT infrastructures now and in the future have wider economic / security impacts we need to safeguard them.

    The two new CASA patrol aircraft are probably the bare minimum … actually half of our navy is not operational if we count the two en route … army has gaps all over the place … anyways let us hope it is gradually on the way up …



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I do feel we are at a watershed moment and I must commend MM for establishing these public debate fora to force this national conversation out into the open, where hopefully dishonesty and whataboutery from certain quarters can be challenged and dismantled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42


    There’s no question that events seem to have finally started a more serious discussion on the entire Defence and Foreign Policy, so hopefully you are right. On the other hand I see PBP have already jumped to the “the chair is British so it’s all a plot to join NATO”…



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    🤣🤣🤣 clowns. That's the second really poor decision they have made today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    The vote earlier in the week was notable in the only TDs who voted against approval send a Naval vessel to Op Irini were PBP. (Paul Murphy, Mick Barry, Gino Kenny and Richard Boyd Barrett) EVERYONE else in the Dail supported it.

    That's unusual. I've seen a fair few Dail votes on various things over the years but this was the first time I saw a division so unanimous. It also demonstrated the pointlessness of triple lock, once you have the assent of the Dail. (though there was some discussion of the existence of a UN Mandate for the EU led mission).

    I nootice in recent weeks all parties seem to be in agreement that there has been a neglect of defence in certain areas, (not all agree which areas though).

    It should make the continued implementation of the necessary spending increases per CoDF much smoother.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Interesting bit in the Sunday Times toady regarding the spat between Martin an the Russian Embassy:

    Russia is targeting Micheál Martin, the tanaiste, through official channels over his plan to review Ireland’s national security policy, leading to concerns that Moscow may use hybrid tactics to undermine the government and state.

    Hostilities worsened yesterday when the Russian embassy openly attacked Martin for supporting Irish people who travel to Ukraine to fight.

    Moscow’s initial frustration with Martin is understood to be prompted by his decision to set up the Consultative Forum on International Security Policy, which is due to take place in June.

    It is expected to result in a significant policy shift on Irish security and defence, though the state will continue to remain neutral.

    The threat posed by Russia is expected to dominate the forum as the nation is now considered by the military and security services to pose a significant risk to Ireland’s security interests.

    “Russia is actively engaged in espionage on Irish soil and sowing dissent by supporting fringe political organisations that support terrorism and rightwing extremism,” military sources told The Sunday Times. “Russia’s security services have increased their activities in Ireland, including collecting intelligence, and are targeting government agencies and state institutions through espionage.”

    Martin, the minister for foreign affairs and defence, has already drawn Moscow’s ire more than any other politician. He oversaw the expulsion of four Russian diplomats last year on the basis that their activities were not in accordance with the international standards of diplomatic behaviour.

    Among those expelled were Colonel Igor Molyanov, a Russian defence attaché who stood accused of participation in disinformation campaigns designed to undermine public confidence in the government and the Defence Forces.

    Sergey Prokopiev, a Russian GRU military intelligence officer involved in clandestine activities while working as a counsellor at the federation’s embassy, was also asked to leave the state by the Department of Foreign Affairs on the advice of the military and garda intelligence.

    Martin is said to have pressed for the expulsions on the grounds that Ireland needed to be seen to take a proactive stance on the nefarious activities of Russian intelligence on Irish soil but also be seen to support Ukraine.

    In response, Russia has become more vocal and assertive in its criticisms of Irish foreign policy.

    Tensions rose again yesterday after Martin paid tribute to Finbar Cafferkey, a political activist from Co Mayo, who was killed in action in Ukraine last week.

    In a social media post the Russian embassy said it did not know if Martin’s remarks signified support for Irish nationals who chose to take part in the war but if this were the case then Ireland would be a direct participant in the conflict with all the ensuing consequences.

    The statement, interpreted as nothing more than Russian hubris by analysts, prompted calls for the expulsion of Yuriy Filatov, the Russian ambassador to Ireland, who has become a vocal critic of Irish foreign policy since the invasion.

    The Department of Foreign Affairs was forced to issue a statement confirming Ireland’s support for Ukraine but reaffirmed the state’s policy of maintaining diplomatic relations with the Kremlin.

    It described the embassy’s post as “disinformation”.

    It followed yet another comment by Martin who used parliamentary privilege to suggest Russian involvement in promoting a story about Niall Collins, the Fianna Fail junior minister who has faced criticism over his alleged involvement in his wife’s bid to buy Limerick council land.

    Martin’s allegations were denied by both The Ditch and the Russian embassy, which denied any involvement in the website.

    It is unclear whether Martin’s comments reflect official government policy or constitute his personal views. The comments were not based on any security briefing he received, according to multiple sources.

    Relations between Ireland and Moscow collapsed in 2016 when the government was forced to introduce emergency legislation to revoke planning permission granted to the Russian Federation to expand its embassy in Dublin on the grounds it posed a threat to national security.

    The Sunday Times was unable to reach the Russian embassy for comment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Dohvolle




  • Registered Users Posts: 42 kenny80


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41129359.html



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Not a chance in hell it would get through planning.



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