Group McMillan training for Dunshaughlin 10k with LeCheile 5k to chart progress

Wottle · 05-04-2023 4:25pm #1

Hi Guys, we've done this before but it goes back a number of years to the time of Meno & Claralara. We met once a week in Marlay Park to tackle the McMillan 10k program, see below.

The aim would be to start the week of April 24th or the 17th if we felt we needed a bridge week before starting, STH like 6x1k.

The target is Dunshaughlin 10k on June 17th and along the way we could have a 5k tester at LeCheile 5k on May 19th

I'd suggest Thursdays at 6pm in Marlay but also Thursday 9:30am might work also. It may not suit everyone but we could incorporate a virtual element to it.

What do you think, any other suggestions?

WEEK KEY WORKOUT & NOTES

1. 6 x 1M 3-minute jog between 1M repeats

2. 10-12 x 400m Run the 400m repeats at 5K race pace; 200m jog between

3. 2M + 4 x 1M 5-minute jog between 2M repeats, 3-minute jog between 1M repeats

4. 3M Tempo Run or 5K Race One simple prediction method is to double your 5K time & add 1 minute to get your 10K time. Are you on track for your goal 10K time?

5. 2 x 2M + 2 x 1M 5-minute jog between 2M repeats, 3-minute jog between 1M repeats

6. 20-24 x 200m Run the 200m repeats at 5K race pace; 200m jog between

7. 3 x 2M Run the 200m repeats at 5K race pace; 200m jog between

8. RACE: 10K

Lazare · 05-04-2023 6:53pm

Will it be fine to dip in and out of the odd session?

I'm currently targeting La Cheile, then switching to 10k after that, Dunshaughlin the aim.

Can't commit to the full schedule but wouldn't mind joining some evening.

Wottle · 05-04-2023 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444928#Comment_120444928

Absolutely, flexibility and teamwork being the main advantages

Wottle · 13-04-2023 10:15am

Meeting at Marlay House carpark this evening at 5:50pm.

Starting a week early with 3 to 4x1 mile at 10k effort.

adrian522 · 13-04-2023 10:27am

Probably too early for me this evening, will be in work until close to six today.

Wottle · 13-04-2023 10:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472089#Comment_120472089

Welcome any Thursday if it suits. I'd love to do it later but I've work straight after.

Some are using the sessions to target your club race!

Itziger · 16-04-2023 9:18am

Ah, the old McMillan 10k plan! Happy memories - though maybe not of the last session. I also found that jumping in to 6x 1 mile was tough that first week so I tried to do either 6x1k the week before or 4x1mile.

Enjoy.

Wottle · 16-04-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483312#Comment_120483312

Thanks Itziger, I re-read the whole thread, you've been very helpful throughout.

I've modified it slightly for Terenure 5 miler. We did 3x1 mile on Thursday.

This coming Thursday is 1x2mile followed by 2x1 mile.

Following week 2x2 mile.

And concluding with 1x1 mile + 2x2 mile.

After Terenure I plan to run LeCheile 5k before doing some of the 10k sessions

2x2m + 2x1 mile, 12x400m and then finally 3x2mile.

Slow_Runner · 25-04-2023 2:48pm

Giving this a shot again (will never make it into Marley but will track this thread) - will be my 3rd time using this plan (1st got PB but missed target, 2nd hit target). This time aiming for sub 40 in Dunshaughlin (ran 40:43 in Dunboyne last month so a big ask!)

Did the 1st session today - 6x1 mile, only difference is I did walk/jog for recoveries. Splits were:

6:25, 6:24, 6:21, 6:25, 6:26, 6:22. All reps felt reasonably comfortable so big confidence boost. Biggest difference between this time and previous attempts is I'm going to wear the magic/cheat shoes for these sessions - wore normal shoes before and always found the session really tough so this time my thinking is to get used to the pace/effort rather than killing myself like before.

Wottle · 25-04-2023 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519417#Comment_120519417

Super stuff SR, nice splits. I'm hoping for a similar time in Dunshaughlin.

Last Thursday we did 1x2 mile - 4 minute jog - 2x1 mile.

We had to improvise as our usual flat loop was taken over by pups in the park. Meant we had some hilly sections.

This week is 2x2 mile off 4 minute jog recovery, should have our loop back by then.

Right now its geared towards Terenure 5 and then after Dunshaughlin.

19'39 for 5k last Saturday and felt quite strong throughout, definitely feeling the benefits.

Slow_Runner · 26-04-2023 12:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519477#Comment_120519477

For some reason these sessions always fill me with dread - I'm probably still traumatized by the 2st time I did them - was way over ambitious in my capabilities 😁. You seem to be well on the way.

For routes I usually try to make it as close to race route profile so no harm including some hills in it, Dunshaughlin has a 2 climbs around 7k so I'm preparing for them. Gonna do Bob Heffernan 5k as the progress check. Best of luck in Terenure

Slow_Runner · 26-04-2023 4:05pm

Just realized Trim Braveheart 5k is on 9th June (8 days before Dunshaughlin), might pull the 3x2 miles into Sun 4th (13 days before race) and then a nice 5k blow out on the Friday in Trim. Love this race - forget the watch and just run hard type of run.

Lazare · 26-04-2023 6:59pm

With a sub 40 goal at Dunshaughlin, what are you guys thinking re your tune up 5ks?

What sort of time there would point to it?

skyblue46 · 26-04-2023 8:34pm

19:05-19:15 would be right on the edge but if you allow for the extra month of training then I'm sure a 19:30 would still leave the possibility of sub 40 as a live option. The only point of reference I have was a 19:12 in Bob Heffernan and a 40:00 in Dunshaughlin a month later.

Wottle · 26-04-2023 9:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120524508#Comment_120524508

I'm running Leixlip 5k where I'd like to be getting close to low 19.

Last year I ran a few 5ks under 19 minutes but still failed to break 40 in the 10k. Ran 40:30 twice in the space of a week.

In the first one I paid the price for a 3'36 first kilometer. Second race was 6 days later and I was just too tired.

I think for me I need to be back at sub 19 and have a more sensible pacing head on me.

Slow_Runner · 27-04-2023 7:57am

I did a sub 19 in Celbridge last year of half marathon training (18:54) but no 10k race after it so not sure what times would correlate or me, 40:43 for Dunboyne this year so have a bit to go. Bob Heffernan is my tune up race so aiming for sub 19.

Wottle · 27-04-2023 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519477#Comment_120519477

2x2 mile off 4 minute jog done today, 6'30 mile pace for both efforts, probably working a little too hard on very last mile.

Felt great after though

Hedgehoggy · 28-04-2023 11:28am

Interesting thread... I had loosely followed mcmillan for a10k effort last wknd.

Earlier sessions were a bit hit and miss - but did 2 sessions of the 3 x 2m which was a good tune up for race - Got a new pb of just under 43mins

Thinking of doing the Le Chéile next - any recommendations for sessions based on mcmillan prog? 5 x 1k or 3 x 1m, 2m + 1m?

Wottle · 28-04-2023 5:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531414#Comment_120531414

What about 3x2k at 5k effort for the 3rd session, I like the 5x1k and 3x1 mile.

Last year I did lots of 3x1k at 5 to 8 secs faster than 5k pace off 60 secs standing/walking recovery.

Tough session but felt I got a lot out of it.

Hedgehoggy · 28-04-2023 6:20pm

Thanks Wottle. I'll try the 3x2k. I think it would be good to try some faster than 5k intervals. 60 sec rest sounds tough...

Slow_Runner · 29-04-2023 2:16pm

Another good one is 12x2 mins at 5k pace off 60sec recovery. For 20min 5k pace you should go about 6k at race pace. Good session for hitting pace for last couple of reps.

Wottle · 29-04-2023 2:49pm

19'47 at Marlay Parkrun this morning, legs were very heavy after Thursday.

Kind of knew on the warm up but still went for it.

Focus fully on Terenure now and freshening up, so no parkrun racing next week.

Wottle · 05-05-2023 11:54am

4th week of doing these McMillan type sessions and thought I'd share the progress.

Last night we did 4x1 mile off 2 minutes as we wanted to compare results with week 1 which was 3x1 mile off 2 minutes.

You can see in the picture that the heart rate levels are almost identical but about 20 to 22 secs per mile quicker. We also had an extra rep, which I would not have been able to do in week 1.

Roll on Terenure next week and then I'll do a couple more of these sessions with Dunshaughlin in mind.

Slow_Runner · 05-05-2023 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558081#Comment_120558081

Nice progress there Wottle, big confidence boost to see the improvement. Best of luck in Terenure!

Lazare · 05-05-2023 8:26pm

Fantastic stuff Wottle, really great progress.

Slow_Runner · 12-05-2023 8:50am

Bit of a disaster week for me, attempted 1x2 mile 4x1 mile on Tuesday - bailed out after about 1km into 1st rep, could not get up to speed at all (4:10 for the km vs 4:00 planned) even tough I had a strong tailwind, felt really off. Took Wednesday off as legs felt heavy and tired.

2nd attempt on Thursday (still not feeling 100% but really want to try and get this session done), managed to keep pace (goal 6:24) for 1st 3 reps (6:22,6:23,6:22) but as working, really had to push for 4th rep (6:30) but this was into a headwind with a climb, last rep completely lost running form and trying to hold off throwing up so dropped out.

Some short easy runs for the next few days (max 5 miles) to see if I can recover before Tuesday's race.

Positives - managed to get the session in and 5 miles at race pace is better than nothing. Have Bob Heffernan 5k on Tuesday so hopefully have not saved some energy for that.

Negatives - Body is obviously tired, have cold sores, feeling wrecked all the time, hopefully just under the weather. Also 2 sessions in a row where I bailed out, hope this is not habit forming! Have found in the past that if I get used to dropping out in training it's more difficult to push through in the race.

Wottle · 12-05-2023 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586257#Comment_120586257

Definitely not a habit forming, sounds like you made a good call, when the body is tired or just off, you could be fighting sickness and persevering through a session is going to make things 10 times worse as you give your immune system a right beating.

Rest and easy running, maybe the odd strides thrown in and I reckon you'll rock the Bob Heff. Let us know how it goes.

I had 8x400m last night in preparation for Terenure, I called it at 6 reps, the rest of the group continued but I was very tired. Played 3 hours of capture the flag the day before, sprinting after primary school kids, had me wrecked 😅

Slow_Runner · 12-05-2023 4:20pm

I was putting Tuesday's sh!tshow down to 5hrs on my feet on Sunday at Bruce Springsteen gig, looks like my body telling me to cop on and act my age 😃.

Wottle · 14-05-2023 8:25pm

Just thought I'd give another update. I ran Terenure 5 miler today in 32'28 (6'30 mile pace).

This is the exact same pace as the 2x2 mile session off 4 minute jog recovery I did 3 Thursdays ago.

I've even more confidence now in the McMillan sessions, in particular the 3x2 mile at 10k pace.

With 4 weeks to go I think it'll be close, need to find 5 more secs a mile and do it for an extra 1.2 miles.

Looking forward to it

Slow_Runner · 18-05-2023 9:34am

Did the Bob Heffernan 5k on Tuesday last, slogged out a 19:09, was aiming/hoping for sub 19 but was struggling from 2k onwards. Conditions were perfect on the night I just could not keep the pace going.

Negatives - not as fit as I was this time last year.

Positives - didn't bail on the run and was able to keep pushing (mentally toughed it out), 19:09 is still a savage time that I could only dream of a few years ago.

Based on current time sub 40min is a stretch however there is still 4 weeks of training to try and get close to it.

Wottle · 18-05-2023 10:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611192#Comment_120611192

Super stuff SR, based on that time you're a little ahead of me for sub 40 😅

We've still plenty of time, I'm backing us!

Wottle · 20-05-2023 8:48pm

https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/10km/a27810445/10k-workout/?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=socialflowTWRWUK&utm_medium=social-media

Popped up on runners world yesterday.

Feeling a little more confident for Dunshaughlin, 19'00 yesterday in Leixlip 5k.

With three Thursdays of sessions left we're looking to do 4x2k, 12x400m and finally the 3x2 mile.

Lazare · 20-05-2023 10:15pm

What are the upcoming sessions D?

Wottle · 21-05-2023 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621990#Comment_120621990

This Thursday we're doing 4x2k off 500m jog recovery. There's about 12 in the group, there's 5 of us looking for 38'59 to 39'59.

You'd be more than welcome, Thursday 5:50pm at Marlay House carpark.

Lazare · 21-05-2023 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623180#Comment_120623180

Sounds great. I'll see how the legs are feeling by then and maybe join in.

Lazare · 21-05-2023 5:53pm

Just realised you posted the upcoming sessions on the previous post, doh.

Lazare · 25-05-2023 7:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120624524#Comment_120624524

Think I'm going to stick with some gentle stuff for another few days.

Hopefully see you guys for next week's one.

Wottle · 25-05-2023 8:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637783#Comment_120637783

No worries at all, June 8th is the big one 3x2 mile!

Slow_Runner · 25-05-2023 1:12pm

I can now categorically say sub 40 is off the table! Attempted the 2x2 mile;2x1 mile on Tuesday but had to stop after 1st rep - legs were heavy and HR was gone into the red towards the end of the rep. Wed did an easy recovery run and legs were fine. Today attempted the session again, 1st 2 mile rep felt fine, got just over halfway through 2nd rep and the wheels came off 😓!! Just did not have the legs for it (looking at the stats my HR was fine) which is crazy as did 5k at 6:04 pace last week in a race and yet after 3 miles couldn't hold a 6:24 pace (with a break in the middle!!!).

Will adjust my goal to 40:30 which would be a 13 sec pb and a lot more realistic. Will do the 3x2 mile on Mon 5th June at 6:30 pace and see how it goes. Trim Braveheart the following Friday and then Dunshauglin the following week

While I've grown to hate these sessions they are great for feedback on fitness levels

Wottle · 25-05-2023 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638917#Comment_120638917

Don't write yourself off just yet, still 3 weeks and you're very close. The mental side and belief is half the battle!

Just finished 4x2k at around 3'56/57 off a 4 minute jog recovery. Had to do this solo as a few of the faster guys did it this morning, others raced a half and one is a little under the weather. Think doing it solo will stand to me, found the last rep tough, actually found them all challenging 😅 but just as I was labouring on the last, a few kids ran with me, asking could they have my sunglasses, perfect distraction.

https://strava.app.link/aIsfZetY5zb

Nervous and giddy about the 3x2 mile in 2 weeks time.

Slow_Runner · 06-06-2023 10:26am

3x2 mile done and dusted - didn't go by pace but by effort so was a bit slower (still struggled in the 2nd half of each rep but HR was lower), splits were 6:31, 6:42, 6:42. This would be a 41:12 10k which is not too far of my pb of 40:43 so aiming for sub 40:40 on the day.

Braveheart 5k on Friday and just easy runs next week with stride outs.

Glad those sessions are over with!!

Wottle · 06-06-2023 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681452#Comment_120681452

Super stuff @Slow_Runner finishing that session is enough to give you the confidence to attack the PB.

I'm doing the session on Thursday 😬

Followed up Leixlip 5k (19'00) with 19'08 at Bohermeen 5k. No matter how Thursday goes I'm definitely targeting the sub 40.

Hoping to drop a kilo or two by then.

Wottle · 08-06-2023 8:10pm

3x3k did not go well at all. Last week I felt I would have nailed this but I've overdone it the last week, a few stupid mistakes.

Changed the session midway round to 3k, 2k, 1k.

I'm still going to give sub 40 a rattle, my confidence hasn't been knocked too much and I think a little freshening up and taking it easy will see me right.

Slow_Runner · 12-06-2023 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120692075#Comment_120692075

Well done @Wottle , you should definitely keep the sub 40 goal based on your 5k time at Leixlip, that is a tough session especially when not in race environment. Once you are in a group it will help pull you along.

Braveheart 5k was not a great run for me - not sure what is happening but I can't seem to deal with the pace when it becomes uncomfortable - head and heart just not in it - hope that I can push through that on Saturday.

Plan to start just behind the 40min pacer (if they have one) and go through halfway in 20:15 (couldn't even manage that for the 5k in Trim!!!!) and see what the 2nd half holds.

Weather looks good for the race 20 degrees and overcast.

MooShop · 12-06-2023 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704048#Comment_120704048

Do they have pacers in Dunshaughlin?

CornettoQueen · 12-06-2023 7:15pm

If anyone has a number/spot going for this please let me know, forgot to sign up! Thanks :)

Slow_Runner · 13-06-2023 9:37am

They did before, not sure about this year as haven't seen anything about it.

Wottle · 17-06-2023 5:19pm

Best of luck this evening!

Looking forward to the reports.

Slow_Runner · 19-06-2023 8:43am

Hope peoples night went better than mine!! Had stomach issues during the week (bloating/heart burn) which meant could only manage 1 meal a day from Wed onwards. Was over the worst of it by Sat and was just trying to get fluids and sodium into me but felt good so plan was go at goal pace (40:30-40:40 time) and see what the night brought.

Could really feel the humidity after my warm up - sweating quite a lot but it's only 10k so not a big factor. Started off well passing 1k in 4:03 (bang on target) and felt good. Pretty much went downhill after that! Trying to keep that pace was proving difficult early on, legs started to feel heavy and the heart burn was picking up, kept the effort going but passed halfway in 20:40 - 20 secs behind and heart rate touching zone 5 already. Only thing was to try and keep effort and HR steady and just watched as my pace gradually dropped as the kms went by. No energy in the legs, acid reflux and a severe pain in my shoulder was the story of the 2nd half of the race 😡

had a major sulk afterwards - 3 months of specific training down the drain (I know it's not wasted but felt that way on Sat)! - haven't even looked at my time - saw the gantry clock was 42min when I crossed the finish line. Didn't do a cool down jog or coffee & cake after, just walked back to my car, got in and drove home - haven't felt that dejected after a race in a long time.

Allowed myself a day of self pity yesterday, time now to dust myself off and get back at it - only way is up!!!!!!

Having said all that the Dunshaughlin 10k is a savage race - great organization for big field.

Wottle · 19-06-2023 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120732848#Comment_120732848

I had the exact same sulk 😅

Felt pretty positive on the start line, stuck to the game plan for 3k 3'55, 3'55, 3'59 but I knew much earlier it was game over.

Jogged the last 7k home and ran 44sth, like you I haven't looked. About 300 people passed me. I was in foul humour.

When I looked at the HR data after, I was working way too hard and even on the jog back in, my HR was very slow to come back down.

I comfort ate yesterday, eating a tonne of sugar 😅

The 8 or so weeks of specific training will still stand to me and I've a 19'00 & 19'08 5k time to work off going forward, so some positives.

Bad days happen whether it be through illness or in my case STH unknown, disappointment can be a great motivator! And will make the next good performance mean a hell of a lot more.

It's what you do next that counts 💪

Slow_Runner · 19-06-2023 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120734722#Comment_120734722

Don't underestimate the humidity! I was in touching distance of a club mate who can easily run a mid 38 min 10k (at least up to halfway) and they barely got in under 40 and another club mate ran pretty slow too based on their ability so I reckon a lot of people suffered.

You had a decent training block there and some good 5k times so not all lost!!

Tempted to have another go in Clonee on Thursday, signed up for Dublin marathon in my depression today so Saturday is costing me a lot 😂

Group McMillan training for Dunshaughlin 10k with LeCheile 5k to chart progress

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